Is it Still a Sacrifice?
February 24, 2008
As defined by Webster, the word “sacrifice” has multiple meanings.
- an act of offering to a deity something precious; especially : the killing of a victim on an altar
- something offered in sacrifice
- destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else b: something given up or lost
Given these definitions, I can hardly call the crucification of Jesus a “sacrifice” for several reasons. First of all, there is the age old adage of “God sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself for a mistake that he made.” A superior being (omnipotent, in fact) that MUST require a sacrifice in order to forgive is a bit odd, yet does not negate the term “sacrifice.”
The main reason I cannot deem this a sacrifice is for the simple, yet complex, reason that there was no (for lack of a better word) sacrifice. If you are a Christian, your whole belief is wrapped around the concept that this world is temporary and your bodies are but shells. The real “life” is the soul, which cannot be killed. The soul is thought of as immortal, no matter the destination. You will either rejoice forevermore with your Saviour or languish in the eternal bowels of hell (which is either a place simply void of God’s presence, so much for omnipresence, or a place of fire, brimstone, wailing and gnashing of teeth). So, while Jesus may have been crucified, he still lives on. Where is the sacrifice in that?
In fact, one could actually view this as a homecoming rather than a death. After all, God was separated from his Son some 33 years due to Jesus’ incarceration by a fleshly body. It was only after the shackles of his mortal shell were loosened that he was able to return to his Sky Daddy.
“But TJM, don’t you think that the act of God sending his Son to suffer on the cross is sacrifice enough?” No, not really. Let’s face it, Jesus took the coward’s way out. He willingly gave up his spirit. Is crucification cruel? You bet your ass it is. However, Jesus did not experience the half of it. You know, the agonizing part where you slowly suffocate after they break your legs so you can no longer hold yourself up… Did Jesus suffer? If the NT Account are true, sure he did. But no more than anyone else, and less than others.
….To Be Continued….
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15 Responses to “Is it Still a Sacrifice?”
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“The real “life” is the soul, which cannot be killed…. So, while Jesus may have been crucified, he still lives on. Where is the sacrifice in that?”
So since Jesus’ sacrifice doesn’t match -your- definition of sacrifice, Jesus wasn’t sacrificed and the whole religion is based on a false premise. Got it.
ChrisB on February 25th, 2008 12:44 pm
So since Jesus’ sacrifice doesn’t match -your- definition of sacrifice, Jesus wasn’t sacrificed and the whole religion is based on a false premise. Got it.
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Christianity (and its predecessor Judaism) was based upon the premise(s) of several other religions before them. Period. And all of them are false in this respect since they are no more than Late Stone Age and Early Neolithic attempts at explaining our existence. Those who accept this BS are in fact basing their lives upon the ruminations of peoples who also believed that the world was flat.
As for Jesus having made some kind of sacrifice, it cannot be proven that he even existed. There is no supporting evidence beyond the fairytale book called the bible, so that’s a wash too. One cannot be said to have sacrificed one’s life, if one can’t prove there was a life to begin with.
As for some real sacrificing, try Googling “The Inquisition.”
Chris B,
DeSwiss has some excellent points on the matter, but let us just say that Jesus did exist. His sacrifice was supposed to take the the place of the offerings made by the Jews previous to him. The idea was a perfect sacrifice once and for all. I do not recall there having been any offerings in the OT that were killed, burned then miraculously leap off the alter only to return to the heard.
I gave up soda for a week, oh the headaches. I started drinking them again the next week. Man, what a sacrifice!
Hey guys love the site - - - - not
and the Old darwin shirts for sale in the add center, I bet thay are old stock from Seattle in the late 70’s early 80’s thats the last time I saw them here in the US.
I used to be an ATHEIST (woo scary) then I met Jesus so now I know he exists. You all have never met him and only react to others belief in him as absurd and state that he can by reason not exist, I on the other hand have met him do know that he exists, so my reason tells me you are uninformed, biased and making a fuss over what? and why? My reason tells me I need to get to work, life is for living, have a nice one.
Mark Tanberg on February 28th, 2008 10:13 am
Hey Mark, tell JC he still owes me my #!@!$!@ money!!!
Talk about a waste of electrons….
good thing electrons are cheap, so why does he owe you $?
better question, How can you hate someone that you don’t believe exists?, doesn’t the act of hating say that you do believe? or is it to say you believe in nothing?
@Mark
Not one person here has ever said that they “hate” Jesus. This is an impossibility, seeing as how we have not met the man. It is the fact that people are willing to believe in something without reason that is despised.
Your personal experience is just that, personal experience. It offers no proof at all. It is just like the Gospels, third hand information. When you relate your personal experience with Jesus to a person, they are quite free to form an opinion about it. One can choose to believe you at your word or one can believe that you had a delusional experience.
As for us being uninformed, there are several of us that have studied, rather extensively, the subject matter at hand. In fact, Ruhan and I have been through pastoral studies. Of course, that does not give us any more credence than you saying that you used to be an atheist…
@TJM Admin
My apologies, just got a little hot at the headline.
Personal experience is first hand for the person involved though.
So that was not the case for you with your pastoral studies?
And I suppose that Deswiss is referring to tax exempt status for churches or what? (didn’t get that $ thing)
No need for apologies. I cannot speak for DeSwiss.
Yes, personal experience is indeed first hand knowledge, for the person(s) involved. Once intimated to another, it becomes hearsay and cannot be used as evidence without corroborating information.
As for me, I was a “born again” believer. Even spoke in tongues. Always had questions about the belief in the back of my mind. the more I studied. the more questions arose. Some questions were answered, some were not.
To this day, I still study because I believe that searching for the truth is far better than to blindly follow without question.
Mark Tanberg on February 28th, 2008 10:18 pm good thing electrons are cheap, so why does he owe you $?
Mark Tanberg on February 29th, 2008 1:19 am better question, How can you hate someone that you don’t believe exists?, doesn’t the act of hating say that you do believe? or is it to say you believe in nothing?
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Whatever the electrons price, is still too much when wasted on religionists BS.
And I never said I hated your fairytale god. Just that he never existed. (Read more carefully next time). I never referred to what I believe. Just that I disbelieve BS.
And you’re right about the tax-exempt thing.
@ Deswiss
Quite the vitriol, I read carefully every time, it’s a rational conclusion a christian would come to after viewing the site but thanks for setting me straight that my belief is BS compared to yours and you don’t actually hate what you don’t believe in. But yes I do believe in the Jesus I have met. That is personal and nothing I can prove to you but
it is my reality and a fact in my life, I own the sacrifice in the title.
You can talk and confer back and forth, up and down, my contention is that it’s in a different dimension than the one in which your looking at.
Mark Tanberg on March 2nd, 2008 4:21 am
“Quite the vitriol, I read carefully every time”
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Which only begs the question, “why it is that you come here to read at all?” But whatever floats your boat….
So here are my last words to you on this, and any other subject, since I now realize that you’re saved and I am but a poor sinner, obviously deluded by none other than the devil himself. I can see clearly that you need no instruction from me, nor anyone else. And you have made it clear that you will not entertain the validity of any source of information which runs contrary to your beliefs. Not that you haven’t abandoned a belief before. As you yourself said, “you “used to be an ATHEIST.” (your emphasis).
So you have your answers. For now. Let’s hope this time it sticks. Anyway, I’d prefer you stay with “them” rather than try and join back with us.
But I DO HAVE one piece of advise for you yet, as I am basically a romantic at-heart, and I love those sappy kind of stories where hope springs eternal. And so I will always live in the hopes, that we humans will one day finally pull ourselves away from the abyss of Stone-Age Patriarchal religious fanaticism, and allow ourselves to evolve to our fullest potential. Whatever that may be. As does the rest of nature, of which we are but a part.
So here’s my advice. Get out your bible (I’m certain that it is already close by), and read this: Proverbs 4:7.
Have a nice life.
@Deswiss
Great reference and that is the very reason I visit any of these sites, it’s not to evangelize because I don’t think anything I have to say will convince you one way or the other. God revealed himself to me and I have no idea why me and not to you. I am a poor sinner too and have been deluded and probably still am to some extent, that does not make me your judge. I try to come at life with this verse in mind, 2Peter 1:5 and try to determine my role or purpose in making this a better world. I’d much rather be discussing this over a beer in a crowded sports bar where the expressions on our faces belie the intent of our words.
No, the windmill I want to tilt into is radical Islam, that is where evil is at it’s pinnacle, that belief is a real threat to this world, also the teachings of the end times, as the majority of christians believe,
I think is in error and the cause of a great deal of complacency and inaction. I am here because I was following links from elsewhere
trying to learn a little something (totally unrelated) and got pissed at the title I read. This engagement in the least is out of my norm and still worthwhile. By the way, I went to your site and read some of your opinions, interesting. Web-olution.
The Jews used to sacrifice their best lambs to repent for their sins. Jesus was a perfect man. He never sinned. When he dies he took place of those sacrifices thus breaking the ritual of killing an animal for forgiveness. According to what Christians believe, we all have another life after this one no matter what you believe. So any sacrifice here will still be in existence. You are taking a human term that describes this world and applying it to Jesus. He simply took the place of the animals, and since he was the son of God and a perfect man the sacrifice was worthy. By your definition there can be no sacrifice.