Keep Your God Away From My Child!
April 28, 2007
I have a beautiful daughter. She is two years old. As parents, my wife and I have decided not to expose here to various concepts of god until she is old enough to understand those concepts and explore them herself. So far, she has taught me more about compassion, empathy, love and joy than religion (any religion) ever has.
That being said, I would like to know why you Christians cannot respect MY right as a parent to raise MY child as I see fit. I will give you a case in point.
My wife is a devoted stay-at-home mom. In order for our daughter to socialize (and I am sure that it helps to maintain my wife’s sanity), she takes Rachel to certain functions during the week where there are other mothers and children. The local community center has a whole host of classes during the week for this very thing. One day, I returned home from work early and went to one of these social events with them. It was a story time event at the local library and they had a lamb there that the kids could pet. Sounded great! Rachel LOVES animals. On the table, they had various books that the children could take home with them to keep. These were not library sponsored books, these were books donated by the host of the event.
There were about 7 or 8 titles to chose from, multiples of each title. It was a great gesture, I thought. My daughter looked over the table and was instantly captivated by a book whose cover was shaped like a puppy and had a felt piece attached as an ear. That was the book she picked out. As she went off to pet the lamb, I thumbed through its paperboard pages. “God sees you. God sees me. God sees my puppy.”
Now, you have to understand that my daughter LOVES to be read to. She is constantly bringing books over to me or mom to read to her.
Out of these 7 to 8 titles, about 3 of them were religious in nature and based on Christianity. The fact that I am an atheist is beside the point. There were other faiths at this function as well. Jewish, Muslim, atheists and Pagans. A wonderful blend of humanity there to do nothing more than give their child an activity to do outside of the home with other children.
I would also like to mention that not one of the titles were telltale in nature of their contents.
The same Christian fanatics that protest against such great literary works as Catcher in the Rye being classroom curriculum seem to have no problem dumping their propaganda driven material onto others. Why the double standard?
In short, if you want education withheld from your child, great. Home school your kids. Have them believe that the Earth is only 7,000 to 10,000 years old. Deprive them of the great literary works and culture that have brought us to where we are today. Shun them away from the very science that may one day save their freakin’ lives. Keep them in their sterile little bubble, looked away from the reality that is the world that we live in. Just please, KEEP YOUR GOD AWAY FROM MY CHILD!!!
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America. It’s the nature of the beast. I’ve been atheist from a young age, and it’s obvious that more and more atheists in America are getting angrier each passing day. I’ve been studying abroad in Japan now for almost a year, and most of this country admits that they are more atheist than Shinto-Buddhist. It’s great. So when I return, I will probably go into great culture shock at all the missionaries and other Christians trying to pawn their propaganda on me. Believe me, if I ever want a child, I will raise them in Japan or somewhere outside of the United States. That’s a guarantee.
Raising a child is difficult. I’ve watched both my sisters become mothers, so I know how difficult it can be to raise a child exactly the way you intend. But no matter what, there will always be outside influences, and you can’t protect your daughter from the Christian movement. It’s impossible. Sad and impossible.
I wish you the greatest luck.
thank you….
It sound like to me that your child picked the book she wanted to know about.
May be this God you don’t believe in is already through means such as the library giving her a chose.
what happen one day when she will want to know about Christ.
Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is like unto a little child.
May be you should listen to what even now she trying to tell you.
Jim
After reading your article I have to agree with you on these points.It is nothing new.
As a child I grew up in a small town (Lombard,Illinois).We were one of the first new residents in the town in 1952 and also to my knowledge the only family of Jews in the town.Although my perceptions of belief changed later on in life at the time I was of the opinion that God was just some guy with a white beard who looked like my father and had something to do with creating the world in some way. My parents were raising me in the hopes of exposing me to things at a later time and allowing me to think things out for myself.When attending kindergarten I remember kids in school asking me if I believed in God and my reply was Yes.They would ask me if I believed in Jesus Christ and my reply was No. They woudl then point fingers at me and accuse me of believing in the Devil as was told to them by their parents and also some of the teachers as well. In the later years of my childhood this concept of what my beliefs were became an issue according to the towns people who kept the rumor alive that Jews dont believe in God and that they worship the Devil. The star of David was a Pentacle in reality cloaked as a six sided star to camouflage its real meaning. No regrets though…in the later years after that I clearly understood the overtones and it helped me to make my decisions regarding organized religion.
The worst enemines of organized religion are organizers of religion.Once a belief system becomes organized it is not longer a religion-it is a headquarterd base for an organized dictatorship.
Jim, from the sounds of things the kid can’t even read. If I made a book about LaVeyan satanism, with pretty pink shiny things on the cover and nice felt attached, shaped like a cute little kitty, would you think that if your child brought it to you inquisitively it was acceptable interest and not just fueled by the look of the book?
I personally think that a child is never too young to learn anything, be it religion, politics, or even sex. Obviously they won’t fully understand what they’re being told about, but at least they’ll have a basis for their understanding.
That said, as an Atheist, if I had a child I wouldn’t pressure them into anything. As stated, I would inform them of all the options, and I’d tell them what I am and why, but I wouldn’t be angry if my child was a christian.
Anyway, I agree that Christians don’t make much sense. They knock on our doors and tell us in our house that we’re going to burn in their imaginary underground world for not living up to their imaginary friends ideals. Not all Christians are horrible though, and not all Atheists are good.
It’s late, I don’t know what my point is.
I agree with anti-jim. The felt ear is what attracted the book to the child. Publishers of children’s books have a good idea of what will work and that’s the kind of thing that a child would be drawn to.
I would do the same for my child if I had one. I would want a child that was open-minded and able to think on their own without being threatened with the fires of hell for not believing. Despite christianity’s prevalence here in the US, billions of children in the world are not and never will be christians.
I can tell you how growing up was in Sweden, which is a fairly secular country when compared to North America. When you, as a kid, asked the hard questions (”What happens when you die?”, and so forth) adults would give the knee-jerk reply “You go to heaven.”
Did they actually believe this? Statistically, this is highly unlikely, I think I’ve seen figures that say that less than 50% of people actually believe in god in this part of the world, and I don’t think these people are gravitated towards raising children. My conclusion is that it was just a way of avoiding the subject, they made god into a fairy tale like the easter bunny, that most children get over by the time they’re in first grade. The right-or-wrong of this is something to be debated, but my point of this is that it’s strong going to give your child a secular upbringing, in any part of the world.
Thank you all for your replies.
Jim, no, my daughter cannot read yet (although she does recognize her ABC’s, which is pretty good at 2 years, I think. A tribute to her mom).
As for when a child is to young to learn about religion…. As long as they do not understand the difference between reality and fantasy, they are too young.
it amazes me how any one can be an athiest. a movement based on the logic of man.
logic question 1. if the atheist right and christians are wrong, what’s the worst that can happen to the christian?
logic question 2. if the christian is right and the athiest wrong, what is the worst that can happen to the atheist?
logic question 3.if you have honestly answered the previous questions logicly, that are you willing to take the chance of being an athiest?
please do not lump all christians together. i doubt that the christians who were at the library that day were the same christians who fought against catcher and the rye. why are you so angry right now?
Despite being a Christian myself, I do have to agree with the poster. A lot of people of my faith seem to think that unless you propagandize everything and everybody, you’re going to burn. I really think that’s rather stupid, personally.. >.> If someone doesn’t want to believe in my God, fine, don’t. It’s their choice. I’m not going to follow them around forever telling them they need to.
Though I do wish you didn’t lump all Christians together.. Not all of us are like that. Heck
Catcher in the Rye is one of my favorite books.
That’s funny, it amazes me that anyone could be a Christian. Atheism may be based on logic (that is quite debatable), however Christianity (or any theistic belief, for that matter) is solely based on fear and faith.
The worst that could happen? You squander away 10% of your earnings every year, waste countless hours worshiping a fictitious deity, perpetuate the division of the human race through barriers of religious beliefs, shun away the vast amount of growing knowledge concerning the world and universe around you… In short, a return of the ignorance and arrogance of the Dark Ages. Yes, that sounds pleasant. You remember; book burnings, witch hunts, crusades.
If the Christians were right, I would have to consider whether or not I wish to worship the god portrayed in the Bible. I mean, think about it. God sacrifices himself to himself to appease himself for the mistake that he could have prevented. But that is another post for another day.
Yes. If there be a god, and he is just, surely he cannot condemn us for the use of logic which he himself endowed us with. To believe that if I am a moral person but will go to hell for disbelief while a pedophile who simply says, “I accept Jesus as my personal savior” and goes to heaven is ludicrous.
I am not angry. I am fed up with religion being an “untouchable” subject. I am sick of the double standard that is engulfing this great nation of mine. I am tired of being tolerant to YOUR religion, whatever it may be, yet YOU can bang on my door on a Saturday morning trying to pawn YOUR beliefs on me.You want me to keep silent about atheism? Then you should do the same.
Double Standard’s - is not North American society the biggest contradiction around double standards? All individual’s want their rights upheld, their right to freedom, their right to liberty, their right to free speech! But when our ‘rights’ feel violated then the whole question of these ‘rights’ comes into debate. I hear you speak, your right as a parent to influence the what and how your child learns, absolutely! I think as all parents we want that! I hear you also say others trying to influence your child are a concern! Again absolutely valid concern! So this is my question around your standards - would you uphold another’s for different reasons - but for the same principles as your own! Would you uphold a parent who doesn’t want their child exposed to differing perspectives than their own on sexuality? would you uphold a parent who doesn’t want their child exposed to differing perspectives than their own on alcohol or drugs? Would you uphold a parent who doesn’t want their child exposed to differing perspectives on marital union? I would suspect you would want to say ‘yes’, but to do so we must allow each of us then to have differing values, while living our own lives by simple walking our talk. Living it without having to get into conflict with someone else who believes something different. Raise your child by your standards, it will be her foundation! And then teach her that other people have different standards - without judging! And you find by your upholding the principles that you believe in - she will make up her own mind, but built on the foundation you laid! We live in a society that today is shaped by multiple and diverse values, we have to quit reacting and start accepting, because truly try as we might we no longer can ‘control’ it! There will always be others with differing values, and there will probably always be some who want to impose their own values on all! What we can really change and uphold is not being an ‘imposer’ ouselves!
joseph, you are asking a variation of Pascal’s wager. The problem with that, is that it’s a little too simplistic. For example, what if neither the Atheist or Christian are right but the Muslim, Jew, Hindu or Buddhist or some other follower of another system of belief are right. What if none of these systems of belief are ultimately right? Would the Christian be willing to take that chance and explore another religion or system of belief? The atheist claims that based on available empirical evidence, there is no supernatural, unseen higher power controlling the lives of humanity or the events in the universe. The problem with religion is that answers provided don’t provide any room for reinterpretation of the available evidence. The Christian is not alone in not willing to take Pascal’s wager. Replacing the “God” bet for their own deity, no other strict adherents of any particular religion will take that wager, either. However, atheists are taking that wager, and there is no clear or empirical evidence of whether that wager has been won. Even Christian mythology isn’t clear as to what will happen to the Atheist should they lose the wager. Hell has no clear description, other than “torment” in scripture. I don’t believe in your version of Hell because it’s based on the worst humanly imaginable torture, based in human imagination. Any description of Hell is by definition, borne of human minds. Hell has happened on Earth, many times over and we humans have created it, both religious and Atheist. Please don’t push your view of God and the Hell He created on me or the children of those that don’t believe in it. The idea of “God” is always taught first to children during what child psychologists call “the magic years” that time of life when a full grasp of logic hasn’t been developed. Therefore, pretty colors and pictures and fuzzy, furry attachments to pages are needed to dupe kids into believing one religion or other. Those “Christians” that were at the library may be less aggressive than those that tried to ban Cather in the Rye or Harry Potter, but no less fanatical.
Joseph:
Your logic questions are just a reiteration of Pascal’s Wager. the fundamental flaw of that argument is the false dichotomy - Christianity isn’t the only theistic solution available.
How are we supposed to know whether to believe in Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, Zeus, or Ra? Jack Chick contends that Catholicism and Mormonism are paths of false prophets. What brand of religion are we to follow, and what flavor of that brand?
I recently posted on this subject - Pascal’s Wager might be of interest to you.
Michelle:
I don’t believe TJ is trying to completely isolate his child from religious beliefs. The issue is the age: Young children do not have the capability to rationally discover religion. You don’t teach a 5-year-old about sex, which is just an aspect of his own body, yet it is perfectly OK to teach a 2-year-old about the Afterlife? Are they capable of understanding what that means?
Of course they aren’t.
I have no problem with my kids learning about religion, but to teach it at that age is ridiculous.
Michelle, a completely valid argument. Yes, I would like to uphold that EVERYONE has a right to their freedoms. The problem that I have is that I did not take Rachel to a church, or a church function. So did the parents who were there of other faiths. I would not be posting this if I had taken her to a get together that I had known was a Christian function. What I think you are missing is the perspective here. 7-8 book titles. 3 of which were Christian based. Don’t you think that that is a little bit high on the ratio for mixed company? Please don’t tell me that you can’t read into the agenda there. I would be willing to bet that if my wife and I hosted an event like this and donated 7-8 book titles, 3 of which were something like Gnostic Gospels for Kids or Bertrand Russell the Children’s edition, there would be flames all over.
One of the first things I learned as a librarian, when I was one years ago, was ‘yes’ that libraries must be seen as the ultimate upholder of ‘free speech’ and a completely ‘unbiased’ portal of information. So you’re first/next step if you haven’t already done so, I’m actually assuming you have, is to make your point to your library! As to agenda’s, we exist in a society where there is and probably alway’s will be someone’s agenda running the show! Again it can’t be controlled! What if I’m an individual who believe’s in modesty! Name me one place that I can go the minute I step outside my door with my child - that I will not be subjected to some sort of ‘non-modest’ imagery - its everywhere - buses, billboards, benches, etc. So what should I do? There’s nothing I can do - each successive generation is deciding what ‘modesty’ is for them and the younger generation’s are the majority! I refuse to blow up about it, life’s to short, I dress the way I dress and I don’t pass judgement on others. It’s just the way it is! Or would you advise me to start making issue with the younger generations regarding it - should I start ‘reverse’ preaching?
I apologise - please ignore my last response - it went off topic and not saying what thought it did! I was trying to use an example - but didn’t work well. Stick to the part of please do take it up with your library - I agree, they must must uphold diversity! My belief is this - we aren’t to change ‘people’ or society by constant arguing and public ‘outcry’. We need to work for tolerence, while working with like minded individuals to ‘influence’ change through positive avenues! There will always be people who believe in ‘God’, because people want to, but the world that only believe’s in the ‘Christian’ perspective has long since passed away. It doesn’t really exist - 2/3’s of the worlds population doesn’t believe in ‘Jesus’ the way that North America does or doesn’t believe in him at all! An evolution has already happened and will continue to happen, but each successive generation influencing the next generation. So you can raise your child by seeing ‘threats’ of influences or you can raise your child with the certainty that you ultimately, not them, are the primal influence.
If all Christians believe they’ll go to a better place when they die, then why are they still alive?
i keep getting accosted by pentecostals with jesus pamphlets that have gorillas on the cover. my daughter is two and i often feel that she will grow up fine when i am imprisoned for garrotting some gaggle of tweeky jesus-gals and throwing their tripe tree-wasting drivel in the nearest recycling bin / shredder. can you tell it makes me angry?
You know, when you live in a Christian based country you are going to have that religion all around you. It is inevitable. Only your home is where you control what does and doesn’t enter your child’s eyes & ears. What will you do if you little girl says she sees your angel and you haven’t even taught her about angels? Will you tell her she is becoming a religious nut? Will you think her delusional? As a parent, of course not, you’ll wonder how such a thing infiltrated her thoughts.
Also, waiting till she is older to start telling her about other faiths is way too late. Anyway…
For the rest who have posted their comments about people of other faiths “cramming” their beliefs down your throat. Just say no and walk away. Either way, by them just approaching you they have already planted that seed in your heart and you are accountable for it.
Other than that all I have to say is if you don’t believe in God yet think your self a free thinker and closed mind then you are wrong and totally living by stereotypes. Don’t lump US Christians into such “crazy” groups because you know it isnt true and you know you have a void in your heart and want to know the love of God. It is that nagging part of you that is hating God but still has many questions about it. You all are being prayed for. =)
The problem with this starting statement is that I do not live in a “Christian based” country. Perhaps Christian biased, but not based. For mor on that subject, please read this post.
The problem with this statement is that my child comes into contact with other people. Grand-parents, aunts, uncles and other relatives. None of these are atheists. I KNOW where she would get that idea. Let’s say that YOUR child says that he/she played with a unicorn and an alien all day yesterday. Do you really believe that those things exist and that your child had an interaction with them? Of course you wouldn’t. Children are imaginative creatures and they will imagine all sorts of things that they have seen elsewhere.
Do you HONESTLY think that a child of 2 years can intelligently make a choice between something as complex as various religions??? (I plan on posting to this very subject shortly.)
Please do not speak for me, as you are greatly unaware of my past. I was raised in a Pentecostal family, was a born again Christian, spoke in tongues and the whole nine yards. Then I studied. Became an ordained minister, studied some more. Realized that the whole concept of Christianity is built on various falsehoods perpetrated by the early church on the unsuspecting masses. I am not an atheist because something traumatic happened in my life. I am not an atheist because I hate god. (I cannot hate something that I do not believe in.) I am an atheist due to my years of study and observation. Why do you not believe in Zeus, Mithra, Zoroaster, Horus….(the list goes on and on)? They have just as much evidence for their existence as the Christian god. Perhaps you should ponder that before you call me a hate monger.
Typical atheist.
Just grow up. If you don’t want to have religion around your kid, then don’t. Instead of complaining about it, just tell her no. Or better yet, bite your lip and read the book she asks you to. Obviously you’re insecure if you have to make a site “the Jesus myth”, and you get upset and whinge online about a book which was probably designed by Christians FOR Christians.
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Bob,
Rational Thought and Young Children are simply not compatible. I highly doubt that you would hold a 2-year-old to an adult standard of behavior. (If you did, every child who threw a temper tantrum or fought with his sister would have a lengthy criminal record before they started kindergarten)
yet it is at this point in their lives - long before they have learned the difference between right and wrong; developed the ability to discriminate between fantasy and reality; or discovered the concept of logical progression - that society introduces a child to religion.
I’d bet that you would have a similar reaction if we were hearing from a Muslim or Hinduist, and I bet that you’d agree with this article if the books promoted Islam or Hinduism instead of Christianity.
Let me introduce you to one of my favorite biblical passages:
John 8:7 “…He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”
As an Atheist, I will condemn ALL superstitions interpreted as reality. You obviously do not. Doesn’t that hypocrisy just eat at you?
I read that you used to speak in tongues. Have you done a post on this? It is my first time being here and that caught my eye. I’m interested in this because some of my family has done this also. What the heck are they thinking! My niece would do this at special church functions when there would be a lot of people there. She could do this at will…she would start babbling then go down front and roll around on the floor and act like a nut case! Embarrassing to say the least. It got so out of hand the preacher told her not to do it anymore at special functions because it was probably scaring the people that were just there for family members, like on Mother’s Day. Plus you couldn’t even hear the preacher speaking! So she just stopped doing it. Can you tell me exactly what this is?
Sorry, I got off topic a little. I totally agree with your stance on not exposing your little girl to religion yet. After allowing two foster children to attend Sunday school, they came home with some crazy ideas in their head!
No, I have not done a post on this yet. As a matter of fact, I have not really done a post on my conversion to atheism in general.
As far as speaking in tongues goes, there have been studies done in a controlled environment that have shown that people speaking in tongues exhibit the same brainwave patterns as someone who is having an epileptic seizure. Actually, there is a great article about such studies here. It is nothing more than a meditative state with outward manifestations. Similar to hypnosis, you are generally “primed” by the pastor’s teachings that “you have to really want it” when you are seeking to be “baptized with the Holy Spirit.” No different to a Wiccan chant, writting a goal down that you wish to achieve or self-actualization; you are “willing” the intended result into fruition.
Thank you for that information.
No problem, Tina. I would love to hear your take on the subject as well as your experiences. Drop us an email sometime. You can find the form on the “Contact Us” page.
OK, so toward the bottom here there is talk about speaking in tongues. I have epilepsy and have seizures. Does that make me someone who has a one way connection with God? Or just someone who has too much neurological activity? Also, on the point of 2 year olds and religion…I had to explain to my daughter why we are not going to be seeing my grandpa anymore (her great grandpa). I told her that he died and we will not be seeing him anymore but that it’s ok to talk about him. I had to stop myself from telling her that he is in Heaven. Why? Because even if I did still believe in a Heaven, it wouldn’t matter to her. I would be telling her that for my own comfort, not hers. Just a thought.
[...] post is more of a reply to some of the comments I received to a previous post, “Keep Your God Away From My Child.” Several people said that children should be taught about religion at an early age (my [...]
The difference in someone offering free religious material at a library function (which they sponsored), and people objecting to Catcher In The Rye as curriculum material in public schools should be obvious to an enlightened person such as yourself. In a nutshell it is force.
No one forces you to attend a function at the local library, yet force is applied (in most instances) in the field of public education. Objectionable (religious) material is available in public libraries, but no one is putting a gun to your head and making you read it, as the powers that be do in public schools.
Just one point, otherwise I agree. Don’t assume that “homeschool” = “Christian Fundamentalist”.
Yes, there’s a lot of them out there, however, at least here on the east coast of the US, we homeschoolers are exceedingly broad-minded, not at all the flat-earth kill the gays god said it that settles it types.
Just a point of order, really, you can’t tar us with the same brush, although I know you probably didn’t realize how secular home schooling has become.
Not everyone who homeschools does it for religious reasons. I do it because it can provide a higher caliber education, and also not to be fed propaganda about religious beliefs at school. You see, a fair number of church-going christian kids have no problem proselytizing on the playground and then shunning or outright bullying non-christian kids.
Marty,
Good point. In my experience, home schoolers are usually much more radical than mainstream society in some way, but the direction away from that mainstream is in question.
I’ve considered homeschooling on more than one occasion - my younger siblings and my son are often bored with the mind-numbing repetition they get because the teacher has to focus on the slowest kids in any class. I get bent out of shape that more emphasis is placed on homework than on tests: the point is to impart knowledge, not waste a kid’s time.
Nothing wrong with fundamentalism/radicalism in and of itself… It’s the topic of that fundamentalism/radicalism that begs the question.
So far, she has taught me more about compassion, empathy, love and joy than religion (any religion) ever has.
Your statement is wrong .. the four Holy books teach exactly the same thing .. perhaps your mode of learning was at fault that you didn’t learn compassion, empathy, love and joy from the religions you studied.
And then you have to look, your means of studying a religion. Take Christianity, you must read the bible? But sadly the bible has lost it’s true from many 1000 years ago. Every damn king that came abrogated the bible, changed it’s message. The Church burnt people, deamonized women and of course changed the bible. So what you’re reading in the bible these days, it’s not the word of God my friend, it’s the word of man.
Quran is the only Holy book that has maintained it’s true form! If you need to learn about it, read the book, read how the Prophets lived. If you turn to TV to learn about a religion, then you end up learning hate.
When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.
– Holy Qu’ran, Sura xlvii.4
So, the compassion and empathy you were speaking of is afforded only to those who believe as you do? Wonderful.
“Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
Bukhari:V1B1N6
Since when is Genocide consistent with compassion, empathy, love or joy?
Your last sentence is correct, but you don’t have to qualify it with “turn to TV to”. No particular religion is inherently “evil”. Under normal conditions, religion is just a reflection of local culture, and good and evil are culturally dependent. It’s not evil to follow current societal norms.
The problems arise when those norms are challenged. When your culture values conformity (and all cultures do, to some extent or another) it is “evil” to be different. Even if those differences are ultimately adopted by the culture - like anti-slavery laws, women’s suffrage, racial tolerance, etc.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
- Steven Weinberg
Don’t think I’m singling out Islam - All the Abrahamic religions are equally intolerant and hateful. Islam gets a bad rap here in the states. It deserves most of its criticism, but Christianity deserves a lot more than it receives.
I can’t believe it’s not butter,
Rival
OMGWTF Said
No, and I realize that. However, about 75% or more ARE fundies. We have an atheist homeschooling mom on the site, look for MissPDX.
For those Christians that thought that this was a whiny diatribe, let me give you a scenario. You take little Johnny to the same function, similar circumstances. Your child picks a book. Inside, you realize that it is a children’s’ book exalting the virtues of Islam, Wicca or even Mithra (that one may be a stretch…or is it?). NOW what say you?
I love how the assumption is that if you are home schooled, you are an uneducated, unsocialized, Jesus freak. I’ve had people literally look at me amazement and say that I “seem okay” after telling them I was home schooled. What is wrong with people??
Home school your own kid then, if it is so important to you that she be shielded from religion which is one of the most common things that human beings have always done in some form or another.
also perhaps you should learn more from your beautiful daughter about “compassion, empathy, love and joy” and start living it…
Cheers
franz
Again, I realize that not all home schooled people are religious morons. However, statistically speaking, the majority are. My fundamentalist parents home schooled my siblings, and the curriculum…well…MissPDX can give you a lot more info on the curriculum that is provided for a “religious” home schooling student vs a non-theist home school student.
I do believe that you have 5the right to not expose your daughter to the concept of religion.Also, I as well respect it. Surely a child that young cannot comprehend the concept of god. I do believe in god as well but of course I do know for a fact that the Earth is NOT 10,000 years old. Whoever takes the bible so litteraly like that, and believes in magic other than fact, needs to get a life.
Anyone who believes in hell and chooses to respect other people’s wishes to not hear about it, over saving them from eternal damnation has a heart of stone.
I am appauled at Joseph’s posting regarding ‘logic’ above - the I believe in God because there just might be one & if there is one & he finds out I’ve been an atheist on planet Earth then He may send me to hell instead of heaven. So logically its safer to believe in a God!
So has Joseph never ‘logically’ thought that this implied aggressive threat that underpin the 3 middle east religions - Christian, Islamic & Jewish has been simply made up as one of the encouragements to followers to believe. Again ‘logically’ what sort of God is compationate when he sends disbelievers to hell just because they came to the wrong conclusion!
Anyway Joseph it all just made up stuff to control you - that is influence your mind & your decision making & my God your dull enough to let this grap succeed.
By the way here is the UK it taboo to bring up any discussion of religion at work or in the pub or with friends - people will look at you very strangely if you try, say nothing & then move towards totally ignoring you if you do - its OK to be religious of-course but its regarded as just a private thing of use to some people particularly at times of stress - as a kind of stress therpy / thing that helps them in difficult times I suppose.
I was raised mormon, left the church when I was 16 because after all the prayers and scripture study and tear-jerking heart-wrenching absurdity I could put myself through, I had to finally admit that nobody was listening to my prayers and the religion just plain didn’t make any sense. At first I spent years learning about other religions, thinking maybe the problem was just with mormonism but eventually I realized that at the core they’re all the same - tools designed to make people give their power away to someone else by suppressing their own capacity for reason and giving someone else (be it preacher, pastor, king, or president) the right to make decisions for them. Faith is the abandonment of reason, the ultimate betrayal of the very thing that makes us human - our capacity to think, reason, experiment, and learn. To be religious is to forsake your own humanity, to negate yourself in favor of mindless belief in someone else’s hallucinations (prophecies).
so no, I don’t hate religious people. I just think you’re all mentally ill and need serious psychiatric help. I’d pity you if it wasn’t your own damn fault for being to stupid to open your eyes and honestly look at the world around you. But I’m sure as hell not interested in hearing your delusional drivel about how your imaginary friend jesus loves me and if you expect me to “respect” your idiotic beliefs you’ve got another think coming, especially when christians obviously aren’t interested in respecting other people’s beliefs - or even objective scientific facts - and insist on preaching creationism in schools and taking my tax dollars to support “faith based initiatives” that use public money to fund their missionary work.
So, like the man said, keep your god away from me and my family. and when the time come that my partner and i i decide to have kids, any asshole who tries to feed them superstitious religious garbage better hope they have good health insurance because if I find out you’re trying to convert my kid I will deliver an ass-kicking of truly biblical proportions. As far as I’m concerned preaching religion to children is a form of child abuse and any bastard that tries to come at my kids with that garbage is no better then the pedophile priests and pastors that staff their sunday schools.
keep your god away from other people’s kids!
It is essential to keep children away from the concept of god for one simple reason: it claims to be truth.
If a parent honestly believed that, say, an invisible entity known as the Great Purple Ladybug existed, and imparted this hallucination onto her child through involving the child in ritualistic activities and constantly exposing the child to the ways in which the parent took this belief seriously in her everyday life and practical decision-making… Well, CPS would be in and out of that house to nab the kid before you could say “therapy”.
It is psychologically abusive to inflict this sort of cross-wire between make-believe and real life in children. I would be a great deal angrier at parents for allowing it if they were not simply reenacting the dysfunctions scarred onto their own psyches, but even so, the fact that religious belief causes such paranoia and mania that these adults feel the need to reach out to OTHER people’s children with their “faith” as well…
It is disgusting. Religion is. To see that it causes the sort of behavior that is like to tear societies and communities apart, and which evidently DOES so on a global scale, as we are daily reminded when we flip on the news.
Good luck defending your daughter’s sanity. I sincerely hope that you manage to keep her away from harmful religious material until her brain has developed to such a level that an introduction to it will merely trigger healthy analysis and not deep-rooted conditioning for madness.
Ashley,
I understand your perspective. If you honestly believe in eternal fire, you would have to be an absolute sadist to allow people to willingly follow a path that led to that fire.
I’m reminded of Schindler’s List - near the end, where Schindler tearfully regrets that he did not save more people. If I recall correctly, he equated a pocket watch to two lives he did not save.
Shouldn’t Schindler’s attitude be just the beginning of the pain a Good Christian should feel? We’re not talking about lives anymore - we’re talking about immortal souls. How can a Christian sleep with the knowledge that his unspoken words could easily be the ONLY turning point between a lost and a saved soul?
I’m reminded of that song… What if God was one of us? Just a slob like one of us? Just a stranger on a bus? That ardent Atheist you turned your back on?
Thank you for your comment. Your statement implies a paradox inherent in supposedly Good Christians. Good Christians are empathic and sympathetic to the plight of the less fortunate. They possess a strong desire to “save” others, and yet many frequently indulge in “selfish” activities instead of spreading the word of Jesus to the as-yet unrepentant. Is it ever OK to abandon someone to Hell?
1. It is OK for Christians to be cruel. Simple enough, avoid the entire problem by saying that Cruelty is an acceptable practice. Except this creates a paradox with Christ’s Love your Neighbor commandments.
2. Some Souls never deserve to go to Heaven. Also simple enough, except it creates a new paradox in conjunction with the idea that Christ’s sacrifice was for ALL people.
3. Believe that Free Will applies, and that it is the individual’s responsibility to come to Jesus. Except that their decision to deny God may be based on the word of prohpets tainted by Satan’s influence. Is it OK to directly abandon a soul to Satan’s grasp?
The paradox you raise speaks volumes about Christianity and all of the Abrahamic religions, as well as the misguided faith of their followers. With that short statement, you cut right to the point of the matter. It is cruel to stand idly by and allow people to pursue a course of action that will bring great harm to themselves, and yet the vast majority of Christians do just that, every day of their lives. How can they even begin to weigh their earthly pleasures against the eternal souls of their fellow man?
Potassium Sorbately,
Rival
You’re right, of course. I was raised in a non-christian household. I have been christened as a methodist, but this was mainly to keep my grandparents happy. My dad was brought up going to mass every sunday, it seems that methodists are quite srict!
I have no problem with religion at all, as long as you keep it to yourself. We get people on the streets in our town centre (I live in the UK). It’s not a big town, but most saturdays something drives these people to stand up and shout their faith to the world, trying to convert folks. In some ways I admire them, it takes a lot of guts (or very effecvtive brainwashing!) to stand up in front of thousands of people and harp on about god. The issues I have with this are
a) If they were muslim preaching about islam and allah, there’d be uproar,
b) I’m 34 years old. Chances are if I don’t believe in god now, I never will.
Feel free to have your faith, I understand that many, many people need it as a crutch to lean on when things get a little crazy. That’s fine. I don’t, though. I’m a rational human being, I have friends to help when the going gets tough, and vice versa. Maybe the god-botherers and happy clappers should spend less time in church praying to this great omnipotent but yet strangely absent deity and more time in a bar, socialising, meeting people and discovering what we’re really about.
just to clarify before i start, i’m an atheist. that being said…
i was born into a roman-catholic family. i was instilled with roman-catholic beliefs for a very good part of my life. i started going to church and sunday school at a younger age than i remember. despite all this, i was able to reason for myself that there probably is no god, at least in the popular religious sense. anyways, my point is that if you need to shield your children from religion to give them a chance to think for themselves, no offense, but they’re probably not that intelligent to begin with.
also, i don’t know about all the other atheists, but i would love to be able to go back to being religious. i don’t know how much thought you put into the consequences, but frankly, i’m terrified of death. if you aren’t, try this little experiment: when you’re about to go to sleep at night, repeat in your mind a few times, “i exist and i can think. 100 years from now, i will be dead and i will never again exist nor think for all of eternity.” if you can do this (and believe it!) without getting a horrible feeling of hopelessness in the pit of your stomach, then i truly envy you.
finally, to all of you militant atheists, please just shut up. first of all, i seriously doubt that any of you are actually being persecuted at all, let alone as much as you claim. second, no, religion is not the source of all violence; i can probably name more wars that religion wasn’t the primary cause of than vice versa (american and french revolutions, american civil, napoleonic, 1812, ww1, just off the top of my head). in fact, most religious violence is caused by FANATICS, not regular worshippers, of any religion. finally, you’re not going to change anyone’s views by yelling at them, or whatever the typing equivalent of yelling is called (besides, religious intolerance is religious intolerance, whether practiced by a religious person or an atheist). basically what i’m saying is you’re making all of us look bad.
@sam
I was a Jehovas Witness until the age of 20 and I never regretted to have left that faith. Now I consider myself an atheist (though in Europe many people seem to prefer the term agnostic, but that is more a technicality) .
Anyhow, I understand your sentiment of hopelessness. However, personally I just traded the fear not to survive Armageddon for an overwhelming feeling of awe that I exist in the first place. And that I will seize to exit.
Amazing indeed, to be thinking and know that the universe does not change much if i stop thinking and existing.
However, if human society were aware of this more and religion would not just utilize our natural fear of dying it would be a better place.
We would be able to discuss and study these topics from a intellectual instead of a superstitial perspective.
I don’t want to die. But even less, I want to be scared by religious “punishment if you do not follow the right path” theories.
It should be part of human kind growing up to get over superstitious believes. I would love in a world that has freed itself from that. I do honestly believe that religion has played an important role in major wars. In the way that religious organizations have not opposed the regimes that initiated atrocities but supported them (the christian churches in Germany blessed the bombs going to England- just to name one of my favorites).
So, call me a fanatic or militant atheist. I think I am. However, I think it needs people who speak up because religious ideas are a real threat to freedom and peace. And religion occupies far too much space in public, where they do not belong.
The example of this blog is a great one in this respect, because it shows how we are not left alone by these people who want “to rescue” our souls.
I prefer freedom from religion over the “therapeutic” effect of religion on the fear of dying any day!!
Please visit my humble experiments with blogging if you would like to see my thoughts on “freedom from religion”. blog.davidkramer.dk
Thanks for the read. You said that the books were “donated by the host of the event.” Given that they were donated I guess I don’t see what the problem is. If the host of this event is a private individual, and he or she was donating these books to give away, then he or she has a right to choose books related to his or her own beliefs. Granted, those choices may have been biased, but…well, that’s the way it goes. Can’t look a gift book in the pages, and all that.
Now, I would have had a problem if the event host had foisted Christian books on my child without my being there or without my permission. We had a neighbor who regularly handed our daughter Bible tracts telling her that she was unclean and that she was going to Hell if she wasn’t washed in the blood of the Lamb. She was 7 years old at the time and thrilled to have been given a “comic book.” That is, until she read the comic book and became very distressed. Both my husband and I had a talk with this neighbor. At first he was set on proselytizing, but he eventually gave in and said that he’d run any material he wanted to give our kids past us first.
In a lot of respects I agree with you–I’m agnostic, and I don’t want Christianity crammed down my kids’ throats. But, by the same token, I’m very aware that intolerance works both ways. If I want my children to champion diversity, then I can’t be intolerant of Christians. That doesn’t mean I need to let them expose my children to Christian dogma without my permission; it just means that I make my kids a part of my live-and-let-live attitude toward all religions and I don’t actively discourage them from learning more about any religion that holds their interest.
I was spoon fed Christianity my whole life. I refuse to spoon feed my kids agnosticism (or my husband’s paganism). I want them to be aware of and interested in religions of all types, or no religion at all if that’s what they prefer. And when they’re old enough to make choices about their beliefs, I hope their choices will be informed ones.
3 out of the 7 or 8 books were religious in nature? Then pick one of the other 4 or 5 for her to read.
Despite what you’re complaining about, the majority of the books there were non-religious. I seriously doubt the host of the event was carefully planting propaganda to sully the mind of your innocent child. More than likely, they just grabbed a handful and brought them out. And even then, I really fail to see how “God sees the puppy” is shoving Christianity down your throat.
Bad news; if your daughter is as inquisitive and intelligent as you say, she’s going to be reading about God sooner or later. And when she does, I really hope you’re open-minded and level-headed in your explanation to her than you were in your reaction to a bunch of children’s books.
Seriously guys, chill out.
Sam,
I can honestly say that death doesn’t instill any greater fear in me than pain does.
I am aware that I’ll be dead, I’m aware that my death will continue for perpetuity, and I’m aware my death will occur relatively soon.
You are correct - If I did your little experiment, there would be a little pit of despair nagging at the back of my mind.
But, let’s put your little experiment into perspective:
Instead of telling yourself 100 times each night that you’re going to die, pick a spot on your left arm and flog it with a leather strap 100 times. If you can do it without causing a significant amount of pain, bruising, and bleeding, I’ll envy you because I certainly cannot.
Would you actually conduct this experiment? If not, then why are you willing to torture your own mind by repeatedly contemplating depressing conditions beyond your ability to control?
I’m going to step back from my usual lightheartedness for a moment. All kidding, joking, and tomfoolery aside, you are describing my own behavior not even a few years ago. The “road” you appear to be on leads to chronic depression and despair. The good news is that this road has numerous busy intersections. You can stop and get directions to a better destination at any of them. Friends, family, internet acquaintances, doctors, even the police are ready and willing to help you start a new journey on a different highway.
Moving on:
Yes, MANY people come to the conclusion that there is no god despite years of rigorous training to the contrary. For many people, this leads to a crisis within their own minds - until they are able to suppress the training and indoctrination, they judge themselves by the yardstick of that indoctrination. Their sense of morality includes concepts of heaven and hell despite the absence of God, and they recognize that the outcome of their behavior is more consistent with eternal damnation than salvation.
Until this person can develop or adopt a moral code that operates without reliance on damnation/salvation, they will continue to use the old code, and continue to feel failure and depression about their decision.
In other words, the transition between Religious and Atheist is often a long, depressing, difficult journey, and one that can be almost entirely avoided if we have the good fortune to avoid the initial indoctrination.
As parents, it is our duty to prevent harm to our children. Allowing our children to develop critical thinking skills BEFORE exposing them to religion ensures that they will come to the decision of their own free will, and not out of some undue influence.
Subterraneanly,
Rival
@dave:
i see your point. one thing i would dispute though is that we can and already do discuss these topics on an intellectual level. also, as bad as you think religion may be, i think that it gives incredible insight into the human mind. it’s actually a rather beautiful and complex tapestry that intertwines mental defense mechanisms, moral values that are intrinsic to all people, the tendency to look for order within chaos, and the quest to explain the unknown and the inexplicable.
@rival:
you are correct in that i wouldn’t want to conduct your experiment, however, you are also correct that i don’t want to conduct mine. it’s not that i’m thinking about it all the time, nor that i’m trying to repeat it to myself hundreds of times every night. in fact, i’d say for the most part i don’t give it much thought at all. however, i’m the type of person who doesn’t fall asleep right away, i’d say on average it takes me about an hour to fall asleep. as such, i have a lot more time than most people to do absolutely nothing but tend to my own thoughts - no visual or aural distractions, just me and my mind. usually my mind just wanders, focusing on one thing for not too long before moving on. however, once in a while it focuses on death, and it absolutely horrifies me. i don’t have chronic feelings of despair, but when i am thinking about what it will be like to be dead, i literally cringe in fear. that feeling is much worse than any physical pain that i can think of.
i’m not sure if anything after “moving on” is addressed to me; however, i can’t speak for anyone else, but none of that was the case for me. it was actually pretty easy to become an atheist, the problem i have is with the finality of death in an infinite universe.
sam, i understand.
i was there about a year ago or so. i was absolutely horrified of death. i would go to sleep at night and start panicking. it got so bad at one point that i cried uncontrollably every single night. and there was not a single person who could understand me or help me for that matter.
well, i can report today that this phase in my life is over. i am actually not depressed anymore. i don’t contemplate my fate any longer.
how i got to the point of being completely comfortable with “it all” you might like to read right here.
as for the homeschooling… about 70% of homeschoolers are religious, the rest are non -religious… and the numbers of non-religious homeschoolers are rising. i think it’s safe to say that both among religious and non-religious homeschoolers there are those that want to shield their children, want to keep them away from what is going on around them. but then, that’s probably true for public schoolers too. it has become much easier nowadays to get secular curricula, which for us is great.
I am an atheist and I homeschool b/c I do not appreciate the government and church telling me or my child what to do. I mean, the government is based on religion. So, hey. I homeschool because I am shunning religion, not depriving my child of education. He’s extremely intelligent. So, I agree with your atheist perspective, but can’t abide by the dissing of all homeschoolers.
Being atheist now, I agree with the idea of not teaching young children about religion until they are old enough to know the difference between reality and fantasy. Once they are old enough to look at things with an objective view point, I will leave their choice to accept or reject religion up to them.
Being brought up as Eastern Orthodox, it allowed me to question my faith as much as I felt necessary until I was comfortable, and in turn I ended up converting my family agnostic thanks to the tools given to me by human evolution and the power of the brain.
But, as much as I am an atheist, there really is no logical way for me to prove or disprove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is or isn’t a God(s) to someone who chooses faith over logical thinking. But I can say that religion when used properly can do both good and bad things for the human psych and well-being as a species.
One thought I do have though that bugs me is, why is Jesus portrayed as white-skinned? Since it says straight out of the bible the locations of where all of this story happens.. and gives you a time line (the beginning) it’s safe to say there are no white people that come from that location at that point in time. History shows that fair-coloured skin didn’t happen until we eventually migrated towards the poles about 1000 years later. Although the colour of our skin shouldn’t have anything to do with anything really, I love the propaganda injected cleverly into religious imagery.
Imagine were we would be if the tables were turned and Atheism is the world standard, and religion was the wanting-to-be-heard minority. Do you think religion would stand a chance in a world dominated by logic, science, and trust (wanted to say faith..) in humanity as an evolving species and not as an experiment whipped up in 7 days to see what would happen for shits and giggles.
And yes, there are defiantly over-simplifications used.
think of it as an “inoculation”. kids don’t “catch” religion from reading some propaganda. they catch religion mostly from pretty hardcore behavior modification… certainly several two- and three- year olds i have known have been carefully (ruthlessly! imo) conditioned to ape the rituals without having the vaguest idea of what it is for.
dont teach your kid that there is a category of human experiences which are somehow polluted by honest contemplation, and she can be safely exposed to religion. any child old enough to ask “why?” is pretty much safe… barring being deliberately crippled by a parent.
WOW.
I couldn’t get through all of this. Some good stuff, some ridiculous.
Anyway,
I’m 22. I was raised Catholic. I’m an atheist. I’m also a philosophy major.
I’m well aware of the many problems caused by religion: problems with politics, genocide, war, hate, bigotry, and (I think fundamentally) causing minds to become wrapped up in cognitive dissonance and delusions.
Religion and religious people have also done much good: giving to the poor, other charities, spiritual guidance for people in distress.
The problem brought up in this article is such. The author does not want (what I hope he’ll allow me to paraphrase) the viral memes that he associates with religion (superstitions, delusions, etc.) to come into contact with his child at such a young age.
In my empathy, I would suppose he views this in the same way that any person would not want their child to come into contact with a disease. For him, it would be the same as someone with the flu walking around and sneezing on his children.
I have no children so I can’t say how scared I would be of a child’s book on god, but I think, in this instance, his anger is perhaps a little overzealous. While I would be pissed if someone under false pretext, cornered my child and proceeded to actively try to warp their minds into a religious mold, I would have little fear of a bedtime story I read to my child. My reasoning is that I would treat it as how I see it, a story. Tell the story to your child in the same way you would tell a story about Zeus or Thor.
That being said, I don’t think many atheists are being actively and harshly persecuted. While in some instances it may occur, given our population of fundies, I don’t see the problem as very rampant. While you can never hope to be entirely free of seeing their opinions around you, rarely are individuals being attacked for not believing in them. And by attacked, I don’t mean in a forum. That is apparently part of the definition of forum.
I’m too tired to keep writing. I’ve added way to much more BS to an already bloated page. Also, to the author, if I put words in your mouth I apologize.
I said almost the same thing the other day, but it was related to being “blessed” when I sneeze. I have a 4 year old who, for now, thinks God is a tree. He asked me one day what God was. I pointed at a tree and said, “See that tree? That’s God.”
I was being abstract, but I sincerely believe the tree is divine. Anyway, I have wondered about what to say to him. In the end, I can only be who I am and make sure he has the information he needs when he needs it.
The point you make about other people trying to cram their beliefs down our children’s throats is a good one. How arrogant of anyone to assume that I share their beliefs, and that I want my children indoctrinated in the same way. Incidentally, I also have two teenagers who, in spite of being dragged to fundamentalist Christian churches by my ex-husband, are not Christians themselves.
I took them to the UU church when they were little, so they could be exposed to different belief systems. It seems to have worked.
I am a 13 year old boy who is unsure about religion, but it completely gobsmacked by how much religion gets thrown in my face on a daily basis. I am open to the concept of there being something or someone who created us, but all of the gods that are still being believed in today all seem extremely ticked off and seriously need some anger management. I also find it intresting that really, Christianity is meme, an idea spread by word of mouth, like those really annoying fowards, and the whole, I’ll give you a dollar if he gives me a dollar thing, and the only thing that started it was looking for an answer to the question, “Why are we here?”. I find it also dissapointing that such a violent and rascist belief could spread and kill all the relegions that beleived that there were 17 gods who lived behind that one bush with the berries near the river, and they controlled our village, simply by peer pressure. Those gods were peaceful and provided SIMPLE answers to the big questions, where as christianity is an insanely complecated answer that lasts about 1000 pages or more.
“God see you? God sees your puppy?” Very upsetting, to say the least, not to mention a frightening experience for any toddler who is not used to the fairy god floating around in three different personas watching everything we do.
Okay, as a mother that was just a practical rant, over now.
Why not having books about the other beliefs (or non beliefs) present? Why only Christian books? Very undemocratic - I would contact the local ACLU should anything like this happen again.
(I am very much for the OUT campaign).
As a “used to be fundie mother” I can understand why it was done (I hang my head in shame here). Christians see it as their god given RIGHT to spread the gospel. I know of so many grandparents who try their very best to instill the fear of god in their (atheist) grandchildren - a very sad, very explosive situation.
Again, I am back with Christopher Hitchens: Religion is poison.
All religions are poison.
Lu
I’m a devout atheist. I plead my website in evidence. So why do I take issue with the message on this page? “Keep your God away from my child” sounds so reasonable doesn’t it.
To me, it sound defensive. It sounds as though I’d be at all concerned about my child coming across a particular set of myths, viz the christian or muslim ones. Why?
I buried myself in mythology when I was a kid. I read everything I could get my hands on with regard to Greek, Roman and Norse mythology. Loved it. In much the same way today’s kids love “World of Warcraft” though nowhere near as interactive. The monotheist myths weren’t nearly as attractive so I ignored them. It wasn’t till I was a teenager that I even fully recognized that there were people who REALLY believed these fairy tales…
All of which is the result of being brought up by atheists in a world filled with religion. Essentially they treated all religions and fairy tales as interchangeable.
(They did have me fooled with Father Xmas though. I didn’t twig that one till I was 10. At least, that’s what I told them.)
So, anyway, what are you so afraid of? I’m sure you’re every bit as atheist as my parents, so why should your kids be any more at risk than I was?
Harry,
You’ve got a point. The only counter I can give you is that a Christian does not present Christianity in the same way that a Christian/Jew/Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist presents Norse, Egyptian, Aztec, or Greek mythologies.
Amused, Bemused, and Cemused,
Rival
I have not been raised a Christian, but both of my parents were. When I was 3-4 years old, I went to preschool which happened to be inside a church. We would pray everyday and sometimes we learned things about the bible. I believed most of the things I heard at first, but as I got older I looked back and said, “that makes no sense”. I was about 12 when I came to the conclusion that I was an atheist. I have gone to church on special occasions such as Christmas and easter, and what I hear makes no sense. I believe the only reason that anybody can live believing this is that they have been told it from the time they were children, and everybody perpetuates the fact that it is true, because the bible says so. One of my best friends is very smart, we went to school together and he was always getting A’s in every class. He was a mathematical and scientific genius. A few years ago we got into a discussion about religion. The only proof he had for the existence of god was the bible. I asked him why the bible was true, and he said because it is the teachings of god. He has been fed religious lies since he was a child, and has fell victim to society’s fairy tales.
With that said, I agree entirely. She is too young for being educated about religion, and she should learn of different religions, not just one. But as long as she isn’t being constantly told these beliefs then she should be fine.
It depends on how religious you’re part of the country is. Where my cousins grew up atheism is practically unheard of. Around here, I find atheism to be on the rise. Most people I talk to are at least accepting of atheism, but not all of them. Some people feel uncomfortable discussing atheism, but they will discuss their religion at will.
We put our daughter in a private school - a non-denominational one - because our town has a cutoff date to put her in their kindergarden. When she was in 1st grade, her music teacher wanted to know how many kids knew about the organ so she asked the class how many kids went to church. Whether this was an innocuous question or not is debatable but the results were harmful. As things in the classroom degenerated, my daughter ultimately said what we had been telling her, i.e. that we come from nature and she/we didn’t believe in a god. Things got ugly for her as most of the kids took the predictable track of condemnation of an infidel. What gives them the right to condemn things of which they haven’t any real comprehension?
I am a product of 12 years of Catholic school. I once was or thought I was “born again” but as it turned out, I was really just looking for a community. Today we attend a Unitarian Universalist congregation which has a Sunday school integrated with it. They teach kids to be tolerant of all people and have respect for all religions. Everyone has value there. This is in stark contrast to the Christians who only find value in those of the same faith. I wonder sometimes if we are wasting our time teaching her that intolerant religions deserve her respect when members of those faiths will not respect hers in any way.
Oops! I think you inadvertently referred to atheism as a faith in your enumeration of the other faiths at the story-time. May seem like I’m nitpicking, but there are plenty of whacky types out there who want to convince people that atheism IS a faith…don’t give them any fodder.
You reminded me of something funny that happened to me once. I used to be a children’s librarian in KS and I actually had a mother once ask me if we had any creationist dinosaur books.
”
it amazes me how any one can be an athiest. a movement based on the logic of man.
logic question 1. if the atheist right and christians are wrong, what’s the worst that can happen to the christian?
logic question 2. if the christian is right and the athiest wrong, what is the worst that can happen to the atheist?
logic question 3.if you have honestly answered the previous questions logicly, that are you willing to take the chance of being an athiest?
please do not lump all christians together. i doubt that the christians who were at the library that day were the same christians who fought against catcher and the rye. why are you so angry right now?”
This my friend is what we call a logical fallacy.
I have no fear of any god/goddess
And Jesus does not forgive all read your own damn book in detail simple doubt of the holy ghost can insure you goto hell forever in there religion
Glenn you win the prize for being a huge moron. Congrats.
We are given the right to choose what we want to believe in. Why are you trying to hide books about God from your daughter. If you do not believe in God then so what. Do you beleive in Santa, tooth fairy, unicorns, aliens. Are you going to not let your child read those books either. If your child wants to believe in those things then maybe you chould be supportive and not judgemental. To be honest I expect that people would be busy practicing what they believe and are not concerned with your mind or your choices as long as you do not use your thoughts to hurt or control others.
Angela, perhaps you do not quite understand the situation as well as you could. First of all, religion as all about control. As far as your ideas regarding Santa, the Tooth Fairy and Unicorns…these are a far cry from indoctrinating the impressionable minds of children with the dogma of a religion. You are not taught that there are consequences for not believing in such things. You are, however, taught that your disbelief in a god will lead to your eternal damnation in hell. Perhaps you should read this post first before responding.