Original Crime and Punishment
February 4, 2007 by TJM Admin
Original sin; the foundation for Christian belief that salvation is necessary. The idea for this dogma is that due to Adam’s fall, we are all sinners destined for hell and in need of a savior. (Romans 5:12)
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
However, let us examine the original crime and punishment and see if this dogma holds true. First, does God himself believe that we should be damned for the sins of our ancestors? The Bible supports both ideas; yes and no. If you wish to serve a god which is more unjust than our legal system, here are your supporting verses:
Gen. 9:21-25 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father …. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan [Ham's son]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Exodus 20:5 I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Exodus 34:7 Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children unto the third and to the fourth generation
Num. 14:18 Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Jer. 16:10-11 Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? … Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord.
If you wish to believe that the god you serve is more ethical than that, here are your supporting verses:
Deut. 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
2 Kings 14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Jer. 31:29-30 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children’s teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Now, let us examine just what Adam’s punishment was:
Gen. 3:17-19 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Hmmm. No mention of separation from god, or hell for that matter. And I believe that god’s original intent for Adam, before he sinned, was to “dress and keep” the Garden of Eden. (Gen. 2:15) So, Adam’s punishment is to do what god intended him to do in the first place. Okay. As a matter of fact, the Earth gets cursed by god due to Adam’s sin. Eve’s punishment is merely one verse:
Gen. 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Apparently, before the whole apple ordeal, popping a watermelon out of a hole the size of a grape would not have hurt! That’s right, we had no nerve endings or pain receptors before sin entered the world. And to love your husband is a punishment forced on to the woman as well (and thy desire shall be to thy husband).
Keep in mind that in not one place in the verses concerning Adam’s punishment does the Bible mention hell or the concept of his posterity being “born into sin” and, thusly, damned to hell. As a matter of fact, there is no mention of hell anywhere in the Old Testament. Every single place that you find the word “hell” in the Old Testament has been mistranslated. The original Hebrew in its rightful place is “sheol,” which in most of the OT refers to the grave and in some places refers to the underworld below Earth. The ideology of a “hellfire and brimstone” hell comes to us from the New Testament.
And, after all, should you choose to believe in a god that would not punish a man for the sins of the father (as shown by the above scriptures), how could you believe that that same god would damn you to eternal suffering for 75 years of “sin?” Seems like quite the unjust price to pay as our own legal system, while far from perfect, is more lenient than that.
Interesting. I agree on a lot of your points…however, I find it hard to visualize a comparison between human Judicial systems and a “omnipotent” God’s “system” of judgement.
Of course this whole idea of Adam being punished and judged for his sin is created by humans trying to put forth the idea that we must suffer consequences for our illicit actions. A moral..if you will…or social commentary in order to keep us mere mortals in line.
If you’re going on the fact that God already knew this was going to happen and Adam just perpetuated Gods “plan” then maybe…sure, why not. Putting a “human” perspective on anything that a God would do is going to be faulty to some degree.
Interesting though!
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Excellent point. I believe that that will be my next post: Is God at Fault? We will explore to what dergree, if any, the Biblical God had forknowledge of the events that were about to unfold as he created the Earth. Thank you for your comment!
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ah ha…but you must also take into account that any human interpretation of God is “faulty”…that was the idea…how much real credence can we put in a man-made interpretation of the divine!
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And that, my dear Trina, is the whole point of the site. If there be a God, I do not believe that he/she fits into any current concept that we have. But this site is here to provoke people to think for themselves and discuss or debate their veiws in an intelligent manner. You know, like your comments!
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Yup!
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Trina, you’re on to the moral of the story of the Garden. The tree represents any “too good to be true” fruit. Humans have a tendency to go for these fruits. It’s like telling a kid “do not to look in that room!” Of course if you leave the door ajar, the first thing s/he’ll do is sneak a peak. Try this for yourself!
Getting to the point you were making, Adam interpreted Satan’s invitation and went for this “too good to be true”. This is the prologue to every individual’s life in that sense, not that we’ve inherited sin: That concept paints God as basically evil or unjust. Which is rejected.
So here we are going though the same story of the Garden daily in our own lives. Satan tells us “it’s ok, go for it” and many still interpret knowledge to justify their actions. Some see through this and fallaciously abandon religion altogether. While few understand the moral and interpret (determine?) their actions wholly on justified knowledge.
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I don’t know if the “tempation” of the forbidden fruit necessarily paints God to be evil…Think of a “father” watching his son enter College.
The father knows what “temptations” are out there in the adult world. He knows there are STD’s and unsafe sex…there are drugs…there is crime…but still he sends his precious child out there nonetheless because that is what society expects of him AND it is the proper thing to do in order to help his son mature normally
The father hears from his son often at first and is excited and happy to hear that the son is making friends and even has a girlfriend!!! Things look good. After a while the son’s grades start to drop and when the father calls the son doesn’t answer. The son has started doing drugs and hanging out with the wrong crowd.
Did the father know this was going to happen (well…maybe if he was an all-seeing God) but yes…maybe some fathers can tell if their child is going to be more apt to give into temptation or not…but it doesn’t mean they are BAD fathers…just not wanting to interrupt in their childs growth…we all must make our OWN mistakes.
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I use that analogy because I’m a parent and I can only guess how hard it is to watch someone so precious to you go on to make choices of their own.
So if I was to compare the Christian God to anyone…it would be to a father watching their child grow with freedom of choice
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Oh I wasn’t talking about the temptation that makes God evil, rather the concept that one person’s sin is inherited by their descendants. In your analogy, what if the father considered his 2nd son or daughter guilty because the 1st son did not answer his calls and started doing drugs. That behavior would make the father unjust. It’s this behavior that cannot be attributed to God.
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Ah! I agree that if there is a God who is viewed by most people to be fair and “just” that blaming one child for the others shortcomings would be a definite sign of weakness!
Personally, I can’t concieve of any real “human” aspect being placed on God at all….the concept of an everpresent omnipotent being just seems so “alien” (for lack of a better term) to my 2 dimensional thinking that I couldnt’ imagine “it” being like a human at all!!!
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Wow, Trina, you’re on a roll.
A good roll, that is. An entity as powerful as God and as Unique as God is not comparable to a human, would not take shape in a human body, it is too weak.
Very good point.
The Quran states, in this case:
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
[1] Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
[2] Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
[3] He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
[4] And there is none like unto Him.
The Quran clearly defines the concept of God. A unique entity. A creator does not imitate His creation.
Also, about the “sin” concept, God does not judge you based on what your mother and father did. It would not make sense, it would not be “fair” or justice. An entity that creates you would judge you based on what you have done, logically and ILLOGICALLY speaking.
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Yeah….I lean more towards the belief that God does NOT act or view in ways relative to man.
I’ve never (even as a child) believed in a god looking like a man! Why would a God create a being in his likeness?….that would be a good post too!
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Trina, its good to see you have logic and intelligence.
Many people claim you have to go by “faith” in order to understand that God is man. If I go by faith, I can imagine anything.
It would be a good post, I’m not sure what JesusMyth would say if I created a new post on the second day of being an admin.
Thanks for the conversation, interesting views.
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I would say that that is one of the rearon that I have invited people to be authours, to create posts and respond to the comments on those posts. Feel free to create a new post! You too, paperduck!
As a matter of fact, if you have been selected to be an author and have not received your username, password and login instructtions, please let me know. Those that have applied and have been accepted should have receive the items above and an attachment that details how to post a new post. Please check your spam and adjust filters if needed!
Glad to see that you are all using the site for its intended purpose!
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