Let me come straight off the bat and say that I resent what is inherently implicit in this question. As if it were a valid ethical discussion in the first place. Why are we even debating this? Is there a single valid argument as to why they should not be allowed to enjoy these same rights as everyone else? This question invariably impinges just as grindingly upon my psyche’s Humbug-detector as any question would, were it to question the extent heterosexuals, socialists, ethnic immigrants etc. should be allowed the same. Throughout all the pompous babble of those who would blush with indignation by the mere thought of two people, who by happenstance were born the same sex and enjoy the company of each other – carnal and otherwise – being allowed to raise a child in a loving and nurturing environment, I have yet to sort out any cogent justification for their “righteous” fury. I assure you that I have attempted such a feat on many occasions but apparently it is beyond my humble capabilities.
As much of their self-perceived moral high-ground is hinged upon the idea of homosexuality as a morally repulsive sin, I have on numerous times proposed the following challenge: name just one reason why homosexuality is wrong and I will, by my word, join your crusade. I can picture the fervent leafing through the Bible and subsequent clattering of keyboard-keys already. However, there are two rules that you must adhere to in this challenge: firstly, no religious references are allowed. The reasoning behind this is quite simple; the Bible’s say-so is no more a valid argument for homosexuality being immoral than it is for the existence of unicorns. (Yes, it does purport both.) Secondly, there are to be no appeals to nature. The fact that homosexuality does indeed occur quite frequently amongst nature’s species aside, morality can never be inferred simply from what is natural. If you are reading this it is because I wrote it on an unnatural medium and presumably you are also reading it on one such.
I will grant, though, that homosexuality not being wrong does not automatically exempt homosexuals from scrutiny in regards to their child-raising qualifications. Still, you should have given up by now. The only arguments left stand on rickety ground indeed. I am almost embarrassed to even treat the following seriously, as any intelligent person will see it for what it is. But for the sake of a complete whole I shall include this moronic line of thought. It is the notion that a child raised by homosexuals will develop a skewed world-view and be at considerable risk of growing up to be a homosexual itself. “Heavens, no!” one is tempted to retort sarcastically “Just as heterosexual clearly beget solely heterosexual children. And woe be us if people grow up to consider homosexuality as something commonplace!” Another such argument, albeit not quite so devoid of common sense, is that a child has a need of both a male and a female role model in order to develop a healthy mental state.
It might be the case that such classical role models would be preferable, still many people throughout history have been raised by a single parent or, for instance, by a mother and her mother, (the latter being exactly equivalent) and, to my knowledge, no more of them grew up with an unhealthy psyche than is statistically probable for everyone. Besides, try asking any orphaned, little girl living in poverty, hunger and misery, which she would prefer; staying parentless or be raised by no more than two loving fathers who happen to be homosexual, providing her with a secure home and all the necessities of life. The presumed missing female role model (presumed because most likely at least one of the men would have a mother, a sister, a friend etc.) could always be found elsewhere or one of her foster-fathers could be effeminate.
The question really is not if homosexuals should be allowed to adopt. The question is rather why they currently are not. It is a case of the homophobic opposition having failed miserably to present any reason whatsoever as to their immature foot-stomping and putting-fingers-in-ears in hope that everyone will simply forget the issue if they alternately repeat incoherent bigotry ad nauseam and completely ignore any mention of a factually sober rebuttal of their holier-than-thou rhetoric.
The age of enlightenment was a long time ago. It is time you grew up and gave everyone equal rights. Allow gay marriage and adoption already. And while we are at it, elect a black, lesbian, atheist woman in a wheel-chair president, prime minister – or whichever political post of prominence is equivalent in your country – the next time around.
Editor’s Note- You can also find Sketch’s rants, musings and lyrics here!
In my opinion you’ve forgotten one issue – the social impact on the child of having two fathers. I’m on board with same sex marriage, and I don’t doubt that two men or two women would be capable of providing a stable, healthy, loving environment for a child to grow up in.
However, I think we all know how brutal kids can be, and having Adam & Steve as dads would make a kid a target for bullying. As wrong as it would be to bully another kid for having 2 dads, there are enough ignorant parents out there who wouldn’t be teaching the proper respect for this situation. Consider how many people consider homosexuality morally wrong – some will tell their kids how disgusting Adam & Steve are, and the kids will go on to attack the adopted child.
Hopefully the teachers themselves would be sensitive to the situation and would actively support the child, but given how strongly some people feel about this, I don’t think it’s a given.
Anyway, you seemed to be asking a question, and I thought I’d give my two cents worth.
I appreciate your comment and I concede that you raise an important point. Though, I do think I already touched lightly – albeit sardonically – upon that very issue in the sentence: “And woe be us if people grow up to consider homosexuality as something commonplace!” As is you are absolutely right that there most certainly would be at least some negative social implications.
However, public derision for demanding one’s self-evident rights can hardly be an argument against those very rights rather than an acknowledgment of the fact that we are dealing with an out-dated and prejudiced world-view, which must be changed! After all, both black people and feminists – and every other struggling minority for that matter – must have expected public scorn for standing up for their rights but by doing so they managed to effectively change the zeitgeist. There will still be complications and bumps in the road. So be it. When the time comes we will deal with it. We will tell bullying children and their parents that while they are welcome to think and believe whatever they choose; such behaviour will simply not be tolerated. Sooner or later they will listen and when adoption by- and marriage of homosexuals has finally become more common you will see that a lot of prejudices cannot possibly be maintained when you have to look those prejudiced against in the eyes every day.
You see, Stone, I do not know the intentions behind your two cents’, so I trust you will forgive me if what I am about to say does not apply to you. However, if it does not I am sure you will agree that it does apply to all too many people out there. Therefore, I think it is worth saying. To me it seems that there is a sort of detrimental apathy underlying your words. You seem to be saying that, yes; you do see that there is a problem. You and I can both agree that there is nothing wrong with homosexuals raising children, but everyone does not and never will, so there is nothing we can do about it. No! Sorry, but that is just not good enough. I will not rehash the old cliché that if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. That is not helping any either. What I will say, though, is that a lot of the world’s ailments could be remedied if only people who do know better would only tell those who do not instead of apathetically accepting any injustice on the grounds that it is what everyone else seems to be doing as well.
Besides you concerns about adopted children being bullied are entirely dwarfed first of all by the fact that adopted children – or even all children – share a considerable risk of being bullied. It rarely has anything to do with anything the child is being bullied about rather than the bullies bullying with whichever means they can come up with. Skin-colour, parents’ occupation/sexuality, vision impairment, freckles etc. etc. Second of all, it is dwarfed even more so by my main point illustrated by the very drawing at the beginning of my essay; that no matter the bullying having no more than two loving parents is still infinitely better than having none. (Do you really think that being orphaned does not merit bullying by itself?) I hope my answer was satisfactory.
Respectively,
Sketch Sepahi
I think that a person gay or straight should be able to adopt just because it is same sex doesnt mean that they wont love the child the same as a straight person im 15 and people are already asking my opinion about this
Hello, Heaven (I like your chosen nickname) thank you for your comment. It seems to me that already at the age of 15 you have a far more mature take on this issue than most adults. I see no reason for you to hold your opinions back.
The argument that a child might come against discrimination for having gay parents doesn’t pass the fairness test. While it is true that this may occur, the child nor the parents are to blame for this action. Imagine if we were to withhold the rights of people because bad people might harm them: People of color would not be allowed to vote because the KKK might attack them on their way to the polls. Black children would not be able to attend school, because some people who think blacks should not attend the same school as whites might attack them. In the past these things have been reasons to stand up against oppression, not given as reasons for the continuance of that oppression. There are no legitimate reasons why gay couples should not be allowed to adopt kids. None.
Personally, I don’t know any gay men who have adopted but I would never doubt their ability to be good parents.
On the other hand, I do know several lesbian couples with kids & I must say that those children are among the best kids I’ve ever known. They tend to be well rounded, open minded, and above all, well mannered & polite.
I voiced this observation once & was told that’s because lesbians don’t take crap from anybody, especially their kids!
Any person or persons with the means to care for and adequately love a child or children should not be denied that. There are plenty of heterosexuals in broken relationships struggling to do what’s best for their own children. Why shouldn’t an orphaned child be allowed to be with a couple in spite of the nature of the couple. Unless these parents are committing the sex act in front of these innocent children that should be of no concern to those who deny rights based on one’s sexuality.
There’s no problem for 2 sisters or two brothers to raise a child. Or even a mother and daughter or Father and son or any number of male/male female/female home situations. The honest issue is in reference to the sexuality and nature of the relationship. Which is irrelevant to raising a child.
One of my aunt’s (who is lesbian) raised her daughter, two adoptive children and their collective children alone at times and partnered others. These children are grown now and well rounded.
I have friends and relatives who were same sex couples, and with children from a/the divorce; developed the most wonderful young adults I have ever had the joy to meet.
Concern and loving parenthood is what counts.
Yes, yes of course gay couples should be able to adopt; not even a question. But WTF is up with that music video!?!
I have known cases where it is dangerous for the child to continue to live with straight parents.
One case I remember very well was of my neighbours, The woman had left her husband and moved in with this creepy guy and they’d get drunk regularly and spend the night beating each other senseless, which I could hear from my bedroom which was only meters away from their house.
The next day, She’d emerge with bruises to her face and say it was some type of accident she’d had.
But She bought along her daughter, who was about 12 then, and I know she was terrified and would lock herself in her bedroom when this would go on.
To make matters worse, this couple had a baby, who during these binges would be taken into the bedroom by the girl and protected.
It’s not whether the couple is gay or straight… but whether they’re any good at looking after children, that is the most important thing.
Wolfie!
Rick, the video has nothing to do with what I wrote. It’s a feature of thejesusmyth.com to display a video there.
Thanks for the comments everyone.
Where it all goes wrong for me is that the Christians love to pretend that they have a copyright of family values and so called morality. It is all so easy for them to say that heterosexuality is good and homosexuality is bad. And yet everywhere we see that their leaders are not only gay— but they’re involved in criminal sexual activities involving drugs, male hookers and public toilets and heaven only knows what else. At the same time, these so-called leaders and senators are pretending that they are against gays. To show how much they hate gays they pass anti-gay laws and preach against gays about how much God hates gays and how these folks are going to jail.
But then there is heartbreak when the Christians own sons and daughters turn out to be gay. It always happens in the family which are most hostile to gays. I know numerous hetero fathers who are heartbroken that their handsome bright seventeen year old has just committed suicide. Why they ask? Why me?
And of course, the whole community knows exactly what happened: that the father’s attitude toward homosexuality drove the poor kid to take his own life.
The Politics of Sexuality is simply that there are more of them than there are of gays. Until that situation reverses they will be obnoxious. So why bother listening to them? Just ignore them.
Adopt and raise your children.
If the kid turns out to be better looking and smarter than their kid, well… the Christians were always going to hate you any way.
Bill Dugan, your comment reminds me of something Dan Savage said on Real Time.
“Most people who seek to impose their morality on others usually have a hard time imposing it on themselves, which is what we see with the evangelicals in the United States, where the divorce rates and out-of-wedlock birth rates are higher in the Bible belt than they are in Massachusetts or California or Washington.”
Kids raised by homosexuals will themselves become homosexuals. Even worse, these gay guys will try to adopt young boys to have strange sex with them. God! Is there anyone out there who still cares?
Yeah, and a kid raised by a chinese couple will make that kid turn chinese and only eat with chop sticks. If they’re a gay chinese couple then you MUST know the rule about shoving bok-choi up your ass and running around the house naked lusting for some child flesh.
AndyChow, I invoke Poe’s law on you. I sincerely hope you are a satirical troll, but these days it is impossible to distinguish the humorously sarcastic from the genuinely stupid and bigoted morons out there.
Two men and two women making out with one another is just plain nasty and not saniertay
The only thing not sanitary is the keyboard you’re typing on. You should go light your tampon. It’ll be the biggest bang you’ll ever get.
Two men and two women making out with one another is just plain nasty and not clean. God created the word with A man and women, not for same sex couples.
… as apposed to when you have sex with fluffy bunnies by your side and angels singing in your ear. Does Jesus hold the 10 foot pole that’s required to complete the breeding process or do you have a kick start diesel operated toy to do the job for you?
There are two types of thaught your and my and both should be respect.I A father can not be replace by a woman and a mather can not be replace by man.
@youkno!: I must admit I haven’t the faintest idea what you are talking about. I don’t mean to be rude, as I am assuming English is not your first language, but I am genuinely struggling to understand what you are trying to say.
Wow all people in this world must be ignorant i totally agree that there is no valid argument or refutable proof that homosexuals should not be allowed to adopt. I am 16 and i am currently working a project on this topic and the individuals against adoption for homosexuals have no evidence as to their accusations and have pointless arguments to begin with i agree with all who want this atrocity to be ended and let same sex couples adopt finally!!!!
Welcome to the ranks of the reasonable, John. Glad to have you.
this is all seems to be another ‘GAY RIGHT’ thing, its about the child not the homos. as an adopted christian girl GAYS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO ADOPT OR GET MARRIED. its against nature.
its funny how most of you people who are for this gay right can only say things like “hetrosexuals abuse their kids” blah blah.. yeah its OLD NEWS, and whos to say that if homos where allowed to adopt and have kids they wouldn’t abuse them to? it goes both ways.
seriously its not like they just give the kid over to you, you have to wait sometimes 3 years+ (which means you have to really want the child, you can’t just want to adopt to get ‘GAY RIGHTS’) and when you are adopting you are USUALLY up against 2-3 sometimes 4 other couples wanting to adopt the same kid so what makes you think the biological parents are going to give their child to the gay couple [who can't have babies (by choice)] instead of the couple in which the female can’t have babies or just the f/m couple.. be honest to yourself, majority of bilogical parents would want there child to grow up with a mother & father. as for orphans without parents/foster kids, you still have to be security checked & when it is legal (if it ever is) in more places, a gay couple adopting/taking care of a foster kid will still be un common & so they will still most likely pick the straight parents. + not all, but MANY orphanages are run by some sort of religious group & they most likely will say no to gays. i experienced a lot of problems growing up with my parents, they are the most loving, giving & caring people ever, but i still experienced problems with myself & at school, with kids. and these problems didn’t just happen to me, they happend to many of my adopted friends who i have talked to. imagine how hard it would be if your parents where gay? i’m sorry if this comes across as offensive, i don’t dislike gays but i do have strong feelings towards this subject.
I love the phrase, “It’s against nature.” Something tells me that you should really do your research before spouting off such utterances. Why not start with a google search on Black Swans, for example. While you’re at it, do another search on homosexuality in nature. After a few hours of unbiased research, if you are capable of being unbiased, feel free to re-comment.
OK I have to answer this. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.
First, my partner and I adopted a baby and guess what? We did it because we are a loving couple of over 12 years who love children and wanted to grow our family; “gay rights” had nothing to do with it at all. Having a child is a life changing event; anyone who’d try to adopt a baby just to prove a point would not only never make it through the adoption process, but would turn and run when they found out what sacrifices every parent makes for their child.
Second, you may be adopted but you obviously know nothing about modern day adoption practices. Most people today are in open adoption. This means we were picked by the biological mother to parent this child before she was even born, and we did take her home from the hospital at three days old; we didn’t “have to wait 3+ years”. Of course her bio mom knew we were a gay couple.
Third, our agency, one of the largest in the country, counts roughly 25% of it’s waiting families as same sex couples. Unlike the “Christian” agencies you cite, they don’t use bigotry and intolerance of others as qualifier for adoption.
Our girl is loved by her fathers, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins. She is happy, well adjusted, and welcomed in our family by all, and will know her story of how she came to be with us as soon as she can understand the concepts. I’m sorry you had such a negative experiance growing up, perhaps you were not adequately prepared to handle the fact that you were adopted since when you were growing up it was viewed by many as shameful and something to be embarassed about. Times change, unfortunately Christianity doesn’t, so instead of projecting your negative feelings towards gays you should look inward at your church and start by educating them on what real “Family Values” are–love, trust, caring, and honesty. Not just who you have sex with.
I THINK THAT GAYS CAN RAISE KIDS JUST AS GOOD AS STRGHT PEOPLE CAN, AND CAN PROBABLY BE A BETTER PARENT AT THAT THIER IS PLENTY OF TIMES WHERE I HAVE READ ABOUT A PERENT KILLING A KID OR SOMETHING YOU DONT EVER HEAR THAT ABOUT A GAY PARENT DOING THAT. WE CAN SHOW LOVE JUST AS MUCH AS YALL CAN TO YOUR KIDS. I AM PROOF THAT GAYS CAN TAKE CARE OF KIDS I HAVE BEEN GAY FOR 6 YARS NOW AND I HAVE A 3 YEAR OLD SON. MY WIFE TAKES GOOD CARE OF HIM BUT HE STILL KNOWS WHO HIS DADDYS IS AN DOES NOT GET CONFUSED NOT ONE BIT. SO NO ONE CAN EVER SAY THAT GAYS CANT TAKE CARE OF KIDS BECAUSE WE CAN.
I find it fascinating to read all of the different comments on posts like this. I am a 17 year old bisexual, and I am doing a research project on Homosexual Rights. The uproar on articles that express a strong opinion can often be more insightful than the article itself – the mix of reactions.
My personal opinion? Well, I’m a woman for equality – homosexuals should have the same opportunity as heterosexuals to adopt. With the rediculous amounts of orphans in this world (somewhere between 13-200 million worldwide, the numbers are very uncertain) surely all people who wish should be concidered as adoptive parents. Unfortunatly in todays world, every time a homosexual is rejected as an adoptive or foster parent, there is a huge community uproar, and with all of the suspition and deciet that may or may not be present, we may never know if they were rejected due to predjudice or if they were found unfit to care for a child.
What I can say is that I hope one day in the future, this cloud of uncertainty is removed from the system worldwide, and that the millions of orphans in this world are no longer deprived of the opportunties of a home they are being deprived of now, by the places that will not allow for safe and caring same sex couples to give a child a family.
First of all I am a on fire lover of Jesus. With that being said, I certainly do not like homosexuality, but that doesn’t have any impact on parenting. Second of all I am a child development minor and studies show that there are NO NEGATIVE impaacts on a child who has same sex parents. Third of all, Jesus has a heart for orphans and Jesus’ work can be done through many people.