To be deported for voting
December 24, 2007
NOTE: PLEASE thumb this up in StumbleUpon, submit to DIGG, or any other social networking site to help spread the word.
Alright folks, ready to get pissed off?
TJM Author Luci has a problem. Her son received a letter last week, saying he would be deported for lacking moral character. Evidence? After registering for selective service, political campaigners mistakenly explained that he was allowed to vote in a local election because he had registered for selective service.
This young man lacks moral character because a political campaigner told him he could vote, election officials allowed him to vote, and he informed INS officials that he had voted.
Yes, he made a mistake, but it was a mistake that other people had a duty prevent. The campaigner should have known that resident aliens were not authorized to vote, and should not have pressed him into doing so. Election officials should have informed him at the polls that he was not allowed to vote because he was not yet a citizen.
The 26th amendment states that all citizens, 18 years or older, are granted the right to vote. This amendment was passed in 1971. It was proposed because the draft age was 18, but the voting age in some states was 21. People who were not politically represented were drafted and ordered to fight.
Now, this young man, who registered for selective service and could be called to fight and die for the United States, is not only denied the right to vote, he is also facing deportation.
There is nothing fair at all about this deportation.
Luci and her husband have been in the US about 10 years, and are naturalized citizens.
From Luci’s Petition.
~ lu
If anyone has any suggestions for us, please please email me ASAP. We need all the help we can get.
Email: Lucecorner[at]gmail[dot]com
Thank you tonyfor24, for the help in setting it up.
Thanks Xin and Digi for helping to write it.
Thanks for the idea, Antidotes.
Thank you in advance.
I am dying inside.
More details coming, so check back often. I’m looking for various places you can register your opinion, but for right now, the ACLU, Congress, and your local news outlets are good starting points. Make sure you sign Luci’s petition! If you have any suggestions or want to assist, either leave comments to this article or write Luci directly at lucecorner(at)gmail(dot)com or myself at rivalarrival(at)thejesusmyth(dot)com.
Update:
The notice was sent by:
Richard Gottlieb
Field Office Director
Citizenship and Immigration Services
6139 Tyvola Center Dr
Charlotte, NC 28217
This phone number has been associated with this office:
1-800-375-5283
WCNC is a Charlotte, NC news outlet. Contact information is all the way at the bottom of the page. (I couldn’t figure out direct linking to the page)
The following people are representatives for Luci’s son:
Congresswoman Sue Myrick
Phone: (202) 225-1976
Fax: (202) 225-3389
Phone: (704) 362-1060
Fax: (704) 367-0852
E-mail: myrick@mail.house.gov
Congressman Robin Hayes
Contact via web form
Phone: (202) 225-3715
Fax: (202) 225-4036
Phone: (704) 786-1612
Fax: (704) 782-1004
Congressman Melvin Watt
Contact via web form
Phone: (202) 225-1510
Fax: (202) 225-1512
Phone: (704) 344-9950
Fax: (704) 344-9971
Senator Richard Burr
Contact via web form
Phone: (202) 224-3154
Fax: (202) 228-2981
Phone: (336) 631-5125
Fax: (336) 725-4493
Senator Elizabeth Dole
Contact via web form
Phone: (202) 224-6342
Fax: (202) 224-1100
Phone: (919) 856-4630
Fax: (919) 856-4053
Governor Michael Easley
Phone: (202) 624-5830
Fax: (202) 624-5836
State Senator Malcolm Graham
Malcolmg@ncleg.net
Phone: (919) 733-5650
Fax: (919) 733-3113
Phone: (704) 547-1193
State Congressman Thom Tillis
Thomt@ncleg.net
Phone: (919) 733-5530
Fax: (919) 733-2599
Phone: (704) 248-2980
State Congressman Drew Saunders
Drews@ncleg.net
Phone: (919) 733-5606
Fax: (919) 733-2599
Phone: (704) 875-2738
State Senator Beverly Earle
Beverlye@ncleg.net
Phone: (919) 715-2530
Fax: (919) 733-3113
Phone: (704) 333-7180
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Comments
72 Responses to “To be deported for voting”
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Atheist Blogroll
I hope she is able to sort things out. I’m unable to be of more help than getting the message across to more people. Which i will surely do.
Ruben
[...] frustrating story of one of the author’s children facing potential deportation for, get this, voting. Please have a read, Digg it up, this screwed up situation is an example of how the system just [...]
If he was signed up to Selective Service, how was it deemed that he is unable to vote? I’m missing some clarification here, I think. You can’t be in Selective Service unless you’re a citizen, and you can’t vote unless you’re a citizen.
Any decent lawyer should be able to get this thrown out.
Steve,
Selective service isn’t limited to citizens, but also to immigrants. According to the text, the only 18 to 26-year-old men exempt from selective service registration are “legal non-immigrants”
Your comment serves to demonstrate that confusion between the statuses is quite possible. You don’t have to be a citizen to potentially be called to die for your country, but you do have to be a citizen to vote.
The rationale for the 26th amendment was to prevent a person being ordered to war without political representation, but the amendment only covers age, not citizenship status. Until the next draft comes around, this issue isn’t likely to be addressed either.
[...] month, we will be raising money for Luci, our fellow author. For those of you that have not heard yet, her son faces deportation for something that is extremely stupid. No, he is not an illegal. Please [...]
U.S. non-citizens and dual nationals are required by law to register with the Selective Service System (from the SSS website).
In some countries, non-citizen, permanent residents can vote in local elections. So he could easily make the case that he was confused.
[...] you have any suggestions or want to assist, either leave comments to the original article or write Luci directly at [...]
The problem is, very rarely is a lack of knowledge of the law an accepted defense for breaking the law. Gotta love this country…
/me shakes his head at the world.
Just came across this on stumble. This boy needs to take some responsibility for his life! It’s his own duty to know what actions may get him deported and then make sure he doesn’t do any of them. Stop trying to push the blame on the others in the situation.
I’m sure it sucks for him and his family, and I hope he is successful in fighting deportation. However, the situation he is in is his own fault, not the pollster, not the elections official, and not the INS.
While that is pretty sh*tty, at least now he won’t be called up for the draft and not be able to vote. Just thinking out loud here, but personally, I’d be madder if I had immigrated, been drafted, THEN been told I couldn’t vote. At least he can get out of this soon to be facist theocracy with his dignity intact.
You know what would be really appropriate, if you guys contacted the Lakota Sioux and tried to get him citizenship with their fledgling country.
If he does not oppose the military, then he deserves deportation. Seriously, fuck that little fascist prick.
This is very unnerving to think that some folks think they know all the rules and just tell others that it is alright with out checking with others higher then they are. If more people understood the rule then there would be less confusion about who can do what in this country. Dose
Lou know about this? Someone should let him know. Lou Dobs@cnn.com
This is a hoax. Trust me, I know.
I contacted Lou Dobbs tonight. We also sent letters to Barak Obama and Dennis Kucinich, as well as our 2 local newspapers.
Luci
@Thomas
Although I’m certain this problem will never happen to you, seeing how there aren’t any countries that will knowingly allow absolute blithering idiots to grace their shores. If by chance you do some day get to travel from out of your mother’s basement to another country, just make certain you’ve familiarized yourself with ALL THEIR LAWS!!!! Every damned single one of them. Okay?
What a prick…..
Can you provide any examples of other countries in the world who would not deport a non-citizens who votes in an election held in that country (not your opinion or speculation, but evidence)?
I will say this, he does seem to have inculcated himself in the predominant American trait: blaming someone else for his own stupidity and ignorance.
Maybe its time to rethink the “Jesus Myth” and pray for a miracle.
[Editor's note: GOD@heaven.com sent this message. Based on Biblical testimony and the IP address of the omniscient entity that sent this message, we have positive evidence that Heaven is located on Earrth, in Marina del Rey, California. TheJesusMyth.com provides this information as a public service to all theists.]
Thomas,
When a contractor does not perform his duty properly and installs a faulty guardrail, on the side of the highway, it does not mitigate the driver’s fault for allowing his car to go off the road. When that guardrail fails due to the contractor’s negligence, and the passengers in that car go off the cliff, that contractor has a large responsibility for their deaths.
This situation is not that different. Yes, Erhard should have been aware that he was not permitted to vote. He made a mistake. The election officials had a duty to prevent unlawful voting. They failed in their duty - they bear a large portion of the responsibility.
Nobody is saying that he didn’t screw up. He did. He made a big mistake. But if his was the only mistake made that day, he would not be deported for voting; he would have been prevented from voting by the people who had a duty to ensure the integrity of our election process. The other people in the chain of fault - the campaigner and the election officials - bear a greater culpability because they were professionals in the American electoral process. These professionals are held to a higher standard of care: They are trained to recognize and prevent unlawful voting and failed to do so.
Diogenes:
He has not blamed anyone. I am the one who placed a large portion of the blame on election officials and campaigners. If this bothers you, you can place the blame where it is due: on my shoulders.
question:
I’m sorry, but we’re to busy to properly handle your jibe at this time. Please come back when we aren’t fighting to to prevent a family from being torn apart.
By placing my son’s name on the voter list indicated to him that the people who recruited him to register was correct by saying he can vote on being registered for the ‘Selected Service’ and that the NJ government approved his registration. What more confirmation does a young student need?
The INS in NJ also told us that all Erhard has to do was to get his name removed from the list and hand the certificate to that regard in at the INS and he shouldn’t have any problem getting his Citizenship.
This must have happened numerous times in the past for them, the INS, to make such a statement. Else they could have bluntly refused him his Citizenship there and then.
If they did not know it was wrong, working for the INS, how should my son have known it was wrong; being a student and an immigrant?
He could have lied, had his citizenship now and no one would have known. He told the truth which proves he had no malicious intent,
I taught my children to always tell the truth - this is the result. Lying would have been preferable, I think in retrospect.
Luci
I was just told by someone who phoned me that if I really loved my son, I would pray to God.
The conversation did not go well.
I have never learned to bite my tongue.
Diogenes, the list of countries that grant voting rights to non-citizens is rather long. To name only some of them: Argentina, Belgium, Cape Verde, Chile, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Jersey, Luxembourg, Namibia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Uruguay, and Venezuala. See this wikipedia article: Right of foreigners to vote.
Further, non-citizens are granted the right to vote in some local elections in a few states in the U.S.A.. See the wikipedia article “Right of foreigners to vote in the United States”.
interesting
I just registered to vote. The form said: ARE YOU A U.S. CITIZEN? IF YOU ANSWERED “NO” DO NOT CONTINUE!!!. Where is the confusion?
@ jorg
The good news is, you just registered to vote.
But the bad news is, you just registered to vote and are clueless! So that must mean you’re a Repuke! Or a Paultard. Ding, ding, ding…..
So you’re of the belief that all voter registration forms are exactly alike are ya buddy? Or maybe you didn’t consider that, before you opened your wazoo???
Hey, what’s that I hear? Oh, I think it’s your Mom calling to you down in the basement for dinner. Mmmm, looks like you’re having mash potatoes. Why not go gorge yourself now. Do something you have some experience with when you open your mouth. And leave the discussion to the grownups….
Jorg,
Your IP address indicates you are in Connecticut. Unless I’m mistaken, Connecticut is not a city in New Jersey, where the circumstances of this issue played out. Secondly, the actual voting took place several years ago. Did you register to vote in New Jersey any time in the last, say, 8 years?
In any event, when a “professional” tells you to ignore something as irrelevant, it is prudent to listen to the professional, not second-guess him. When a professional tells you “Yes, you have the right to vote, despite what the form says”, you listen to the professional, not the form that may not reflect the current laws.
Jorg, you display so much ignorance, but I forgive you.
According to this site:
http://immigrantvoting.org/
Currently, noncitizens vote in seven jurisdictions in the United States, and another three towns have passed local laws but await state enabling legislation to implement. More than a dozen other cities are — or recently have — considered restoring immigrant voting rights.
Efforts to reinstate voting rights for noncitizen residents –which were widespread in 40 states and federal territories until the demise of the practice in the 1920s– are in high gear. Legislation has been re-introduced in Massachusetts, where several local communities are seeking home rule authorization from the state legislature and Minnesota, a state with a long history of nonresident voting rights which seeks to amend the state constitution to restore those rights (along with voting rights for ex-offenders). New York City introduced legislation April 20, 2005 and City Council committee hearings were held November 14; though the bill died in committee, it was re-introduced in 2006 with some modifications to address technical concerns.
Vermont recently launched a noncitizen voting initiative by holding a demonstration election in March 2006 to educate immigrants about the election process and to raise public awareness.
Other contemporary efforts include California (where San Francisco’s November 2004 ballot included Proposition F to allow all residents to vote in school board elections), Connecticut, Illinois (which has allowed noncitizen voting in school board elections since 1998), Maine, Maryland (where six communities allow noncitizen voting and additional campaigns are underway), North Carolina, Texas, Washington DC (where a bill was introduced to City Council in July 2003 to allow legal permanent residents to vote), and Wisconsin.
To Diogenes, the following re countries where non-citizens may vote:
The following nations permit non-citizens to cast ballots. Those with the most recently passed laws are listed first.
Belgium (2004): Local elections
Austria (2002): Local elections in Vienna
European Union (1992): Reciprocal local and European Parliament elections for all member nations
Barbados (1990): Citizens of British Commonwealth can vote in national elections
Hungary (1990): Local elections for permanent residents
Chile (1989): Local and national elections
Iceland (1986): Nordic Union citizens can vote in local elections
Spain (1985): Local elections
Venezuela (1983): 10-year residents can vote in local and state elections
Finland (1981): Nordic Union citizens can vote in local elections (expanded in 1991 to all four-year residents)
Netherlands (1979): Local elections in Rotterdam (expanded nationwide in 1985)
Norway (1978): Local elections for Nordic Union (expanded in 1995 for three-year residents)
Denmark (1977): Local elections for Nordic Union (expanded in 1981 for all foreign residents)
Portugal (1976): National and some local elections (expanded 1997 to all three-year residents)
Sweden (1975): Local and regional elections, plus some national referenda
New Zealand (1975): Local and national elections
Ireland (1963): Local elections (expanded 1985 to remove six-month residency requirement and to allow British citizens a national vote)
Uruguay (1952): National elections for 15-year residents
Israel (1950): Local elections for Jewish residents only
United Kingdom (1948): National elections for Commonwealth and Irish citizens
Switzerland (1849): Five-year residents in Neuchatel canton (expanded in 1979 to include 10-year residents in Jura canton)
Source: The Immigrant Voting Project
you guys will love this:
If Ms. Van Vuuren wants a miracle to happen on behalf of her son, perhaps she should pray for it. Oh… that’s right, she’s an anti-religion, atheist activist. She doesn’t do prayer.
Sorry, I am NOT moved by this case.
http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/if-its-your-hearts-166002.html#post799064
Luci..
Don’t let the Christian Nazis keep you down!
This has been fun reading. I think that they should let anyone in any country vote in American elections. I am getting tired of apple pie anyways.
I was rude and I appoligize for that.
The NJ voter registration form says right above the signature:
http://www.nj.gov/oag/elections/form_pdf%27s/Voter-reg-app(web)10.18.07.pdf
Declaration - I swear or affirm that: I am a U.S. Citizen I understand that any false or fraudulent registration may subject a fine of up to $15,000, imprisonment up to 5 years, or both pursuant to R.S. 19:34-1
It does not matter how many other countries allow non-citizens to vote.
How could he sign such paper? My first thought (and probably that of the immigration officer) was disrespect of the USA and their laws. The other possibility is of course that he did not fill out the form and therefore did not read what he signed. In that case the name of the political campaigner (he is not an official) should be on the form. I would try to get a copy of that form and have him testify that Luci’s son did not know what he was signing. Get an immigration lawyer in Charlotte, who talks to the INS every day and can tell them to give the son a break.
good luck.
p.s. It would be really creepy if my mom called. She died in 1958.
Jorg,
I repeat:
Luce has retained an immigration attorney, however putting all your eggs in one basket is rarely a good idea. The blogosphere has a lot more power than an attorney, but it’s harder to mobilize.
Spread the word. Enough people pissed about something and things change.
We contacted a federal group in NJ who investigates voter fraud and irregularities who will look into it.
He was only asked his name, SS# and DOB - he filled out a small card, not the form where it is asked about citizenship.
We called the NJ Election people. They only keep records for 5 years but we hope we will be able to get the information.
You know, a young man came to my door a few months ago selling magazines. He went over this little form after I had ordered something and then told me to sign in the “dotted line”. He had to give me a carbon copy of this transaction, and this was for just some stupid magazines! I would think that this person should be pretty easy to find. Did he go to the dorms, or doesn’t your son live in a dorm? When I was 18 I was a freshman, and all visitors, no matter what type, had to have permission from the president to be on campus. Just another thought.
Sorry, but the person I am referring to is that one that told him that he could vote!
I have to say something here to those people who state that he should know the rules if he is going to be here. When you go and visit a foreign country (Italy, Spain, France, etc) what is one of the first questions you hear people ask…”Do you speak English?” Why should they?? You went to their country, so you should speak their language. You shouldn’t expect them to conform to you, and we shouldn’t deport this poor man because we expected something from him that some of our own citizens couldn’t explain to you, and that is the voting system. We should be proud of the fact that he cared and went and voted, not sending him away because he exercised what he thought was his right. If he is to be deported for “lacking moral character” then most people in general wouldn’t be here. Get it together, people! Think about how this family is feeling. Think of someone you love having to leave, never to return and then reread this post. Then, look at all of the names that are supporting this family and get to work contacting them!!! We’re running out of time here!!!
As promised, Mr Ron Hayduk http://ronhayduk.com/ called me and we had a long conversation re this sad situation.
http://immigrantvoting.org/index.html
He has excellent contacts which he will contact to help us. He also believes that the more we publicize this, the better it would be for us. He knows a journalist with The Daily Tar Heel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Tar_Heel who he will contact to see if we can get the media interested.
One of his good friends is a Senator in Washington, DC and also a professor at the American University in DC. He will get him involved as well.
He feels what is being done to Erhard is criminal. He will keep in touch and keep trying to get as many as possible people involved.
Hey folks
I’m Luci’s son who was mentioned in the post above. Firstly I really wanted to thank everyone for all the help and support you’ve given to me and my folks, you will never know how much it means to us.
Secondly I just wanted to explain things in my own words. I went into this whole thing with the best intentions. There were a lot of things going wrong in our country at the time and my friends and I wanted to do all that we could to try and make things better. If I thought for a second that I was breaking the law by my actions I would never have voted, I was told that it was perfectly within my rights to do so and after participating in protests and letter writing campaigns it seemed to be my duty to hit the polls.
I never claimed to be a citizen and even made it clear that I was a permanent resident. I was told that all I needed was a SSN and a signiture, which I believed, being a wide eyed college student. When I went to get my citizenship I was perfectly honest about my voting history and never tried to hide a thing.
I really wish that none of this ever happened, but since it has I hope that this situation can be resolved in a positive way so I can stay in this country that has become my home over the last decade.
With your continued help and support I’m sure that we’ll be able to keep our family together. It’s people like the ones on this board that makes me proud to be an American, maybe not on paper but always in my heart.
Now I know many of you who are reading this have already judged my friend Erhard, but I can tell you from personal experience that he is a good man with a loving family. I know in my heart that he would never try and defraud the country by voting. I have known and loved him and his family since they came to the states. They are like a second family to me and I just want to do whatever I can to insure that he stays in this country that he has called home for so long. I hope that in the following months I can still have my buddy here to hang out with and to help me when I am down. If he is deported I don’t know what I will do. He is a brother to me and my best friend. My only wish is that he stays here so he can continue a life that has been met with happiness and love.
[...] Luci’s son who was mentioned in the post To Be Deported For Voting. Firstly I really wanted to thank everyone for all the help and support you’ve given to me and my [...]
I know that Jim from an earlier post might not be back again, but I want to chat about his brief post anyway. This is a very important issue for all of us since it involves one of our own. Now, Jim claims that this is a hoax. I can understand what he is saying. Unfortunately, in this day and age, in order to protect yourself-and your pocketbook-you have to think like Jim does. However, if Jim decides that he would like to donate say…$5…to something that MIGHT be real, and others do the same, it would still add up fast, and if it is indeed false, then it’s only $5, right? I guess what I am trying to say is that I hope that all of the people who find themselves fence sitting on whether it’s true or not…please throw $5 in the kitty and take your chance! The only thing we really have to lose here is a young man who wants to be here and take part in our voting system…one that we take for granted.
While the donations will help Luci with her family’s legal fees, public exposure of Erhard’s ordeal may be the only thing that can help. The law, strictly interpreted, can easily screw Erhard. Your outrage at this injustice may force indifferent policy makers to do the right thing.
Alert the major media organizations, post the story on your blog, submit to digg, thumb it up in stumble, tell your friends and family (but please don’t spam people at random)
Your voice may be worth more than than any dollar amount you could send.
The Congressman in Erhard’s District is:
http://www.hayes.house.gov/
Concord, NC Office:
137 Union Street South
Concord, NC 28025
(704) 786-1612
FAX: (704) 782-1004
Toll Free in NC: (888) 207-1311
Rockingham, NC Office:
230 East Franklin St.
Rockingham, NC 28379
(910) 997-2070
FAX (910)997-7987
Washington, DC Office:
130 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-3715
FAX (202) 225-4036
Thank you Rivalarrival and Recovering Catholic
Recovering Catholic, I can understand your doubts, however we went to the authorities to get to the root of all of this, we went to NC State Board of Elections as well - would we do this if it’s a scam?
So far every representative we call, send us to someone else. We just called Robin Hayes and he sent us back to:
http://watt.house.gov/
CHARLOTTE
1230 W. Morehead St.
Suite 306
Charlotte, NC
28208-5214
Tel. (704) 344-9950
Fax (704) 344-9971
(Mell Watt)
David of TheJesusMyth initially wanted donations to go to his PayPal account, but he would then be taxed on it - so he suggested I get my own.
~ lu
I don’t really know what more to do to prove my credibility.
If anyone cares to look at my website:
http://atheisttoolbox.com/
http://atheisttoolbox.com/forum/ you will see that I have been promoting it since it’s conception. I did not crawl out of the woodwork all of a sudden.
~ lu
Oh no Luci! I didn’t mean that I had doubts! I know that you are sincere, and have been promoting it on every website I can think of. I was referring to that Jim guy who said that this is a scam and he knows it. When I get more time I am going to start emailing any of the political people I can around here. How are things going with the appeal?
Luci,
Don’t worry about doubts - it doesn’t matter who it is or how much coverage it gets, somebody is always going to think that anyone asking for anything is a scammer. The internet is full of Nigerian fraud, “escrow accounts”, V1@gr@, Canadian drugs, spam, snake oil salesmen, get-rich-quick, pyramid schemes, multi-level marketing…
Unfortunately, these scams have jaded the general public, made us paranoid. When a legitimate cause comes along, our knee-jerk reaction is “scam”.
We all know of people who refuse to believe the truth, preferring their own fantasy over reality. We’re not going to convince these people, no matter what we do. Just spend your time on avenues that will produce results, and let the detractors live in their own fantasy worlds.
Hi Recovering Catholic
I addressed the post to those who doubt me - forgive me for the confusion.
I am sick and tired today.
Those who don’t want to believe me can go crawl back in the holes they came from.
My son and I are NOT fair game to them. I don’t need them, their signatures, their doubts in my life right now.
I am really drained - and people like them take away the little bit of energy I have.
Lu
It’s ok, Lu. You know that I love you and are thinking about you constantly! I was just reading the papers from the INS. Is it possible that Erhard got confused when the paper states that it is illegal to vote if one is not a citizen? Maybe he thought that his green card gave him the right? I don’t know. I am grasping at straws right now.
RC,
Luci or Erhard, correct me if I’m wrong… Erhard claims to have never seen (let alone signed) the affidavit mentioned in the notice from the INS. The INS apparently doesn’t have a copy of this affidavit either: They are relying on a statement from the Superintendent of Elections instead of a copy of the affidavit.
It seems pretty odd that the only thing securing our electoral process is the promise of the prospective voters and the threat of punishment if they are discovered. Had Erhard not mentioned this during his hearing, nobody would know about it and he’d be well on his way to becoming a citizen.
What’s preventing people from exploiting this weakness intentionally? Get a bunch of activists regardless of their citizenship status, dummy up enough credentials to fool the registrars, and have them vote in close-call elections…
Seems like any college town would be a huge target for this sort of attack Thousands of students moving into and out of the area every year must make election integrity a tough job. That said, don’t we deserve some sort of positive assurance that the process isn’t being manipulated?
Erhard knew legally he could not vote, and told the voter campaigners in so many words that he is a legal resident, but not a citizen. They then assured him that it’s not a problem as his registering for Selective Service qualifies him.
I remember him coming home and told me - I as his mother should have known better, but it seemed so logical to me that I accepted it as well.
His one best friend was in the military during that time and even he did not question it for a moment (He signed the petition as well and is willing to testify for us in court).
I just have to mention that I contacted ACLU and asked them for help. They wrote back that they cannot get involved as it is” too complex and confusing” … and yet, and YET we were supposed to know the letter of the law. (I have the letter should anyone doubt me about this).
As far as I know the voter campaigners have a quota and get paid for every person they register.
I think there is a massive hole in the system here, ripe for abuse. Who knows how many others are in the same boat?
If Erhard did not tell the truth when asked, no one would have known even. If he did not chose to become a citizen, he could have continued to vote.
My husband and I never voted - it did not even cross out minds as we honestly believed the Selective Service qualified Erhard.
Thank you, Recovering Catholic, I love you right back.
Rivalarrival, no one knows if the process is being abused. However, having said that, not for a second do I believe Erhard’s case is isolated.
Lu
(Ps Erhard was with us yesterday, asked me to thank everybody for all the support and help. He is so drained extremely worried at the moment that he sat looking at the screen and said he has nothing to say. He does not sleep and eat very little. This is taking it’s toll on all of us.)
I want to add two things:
1) When my husband told the lady at the INS in Newark, NJ about this, she shrugged it off and her words were: Let him remove his name from the voters list and he will become a citizen. (This happened during my husband’s citizen ship interview - we never tried to hide it).
2) Until the day we received the letter from the CIS in NC, we believed it was not a problem.
Lu
Erhard’s case is far from isolated… I mentioned it to my sister the other day, and she told me about one of her classmates. His parents became naturalized citizens after his 18th birthday, although they had all been in the country for several years prior. One of his high school teachers made voter registration a mandatory part of the class: only those who would not be 18 by graduation were exempt. So, he registered. INS threatened to deport him, and settled with permanently denying him citizenship. His entire family has been naturalized, but he has not.
There was a case from California about 6 months ago. . She was elected to city council before police investigated claims that she was born in Cuba. At the age of 1, her parents brought her into the country. She was never naturalized. She was arrested for voter fraud and threatened with deportation.
Update:
The lawyer filed the appeal and is sending it by UPS as we speak.
He challenges the state on 6 counts where he feels they did not do enough investigating before coming to their conclusion, an dhe feels they are reacting extremely harsh by threatening with removal (which is the nice word for deporting).
It may take up to a year for the whole mess to be resolved. However he feels positive that we have a strong enough case to show that the intent was not malicious.
I know about the case in CA. Her name is Zoila Meyer.
Lu
Update:
My son is being sued for:
1) Registering to vote which makes him morally unfit to be a citizen.
2) The actual voting which carries the penalty of deportation.
The lawyer is only addressing the first one now. Here are his requests for a hearing:
CIS officer alleged that Applicant lacks moral character due to alleged unlawful voting in three general elections in the State on New Jersey. Applicant asserts that the decision is in error as it fails to take into account such factors as, a) election laws in the State of New Jersey, b) how the applicant registered and or/voted, c) the extent of the applicant’s knowledge of the election laws in New Jersey, d) whether the applicant received any instruction regarding his eligibility to vote, e) who provided such information to the applicant, f) the applicant’s intent when registering to vote and voting. In short, the CIS adjudicator failed to conduct the full inquiry necessary.
Bob Meek from Senator Elizabeth Dole’s office in Salisbury, NC returned our call today. He handles all immigration issues for the Senator in the office. He is also of the opinion that this case should never have gone this far and will do anything in his power to help us.
Luci,
Keep the updates coming. Hopefully the whole thing will turn out to be a nothing more than a big misunderstanding.
Let us know what, if anything, Senator Dole and her staff are doing to help.
Rival
He should be deported, hes an illegal who knowingly broke the law. Any money given to his defense will be wasted as he dosent have case imho, ianal.
Rick,
Nothing wrong with your reflexes, buddy. Nice knee-jerk.
1. He is not an illegal alien, he is a permanent resident of the United States. If you are an American citizen, good money says that you yourself had foreign ancestors no more than 5 generations above you.
2. He did not knowingly break the law: he was told that he was authorized to vote, and was permitted to do so by authorities who failed to do their duty.
3. He has a very good case. Permanent residents, like American Citizens, are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I am not a lawyer either, and I can poke about a dozen holes in the INS’s case.
4. Thanks for your opinion.
the line about voter registration and election volunteers having a “duty” to stop someone from signing a form saying he’s a citizen and eligible to vote sort of kills this.
it’s an unfortunate situation, but i prefer not to point fingers at well-meaning volunteers trying to make democracy work. this was mostly his mistake.
Responsible Liberal,
It doesn’t matter how good a person’s intentions if they were negligent in their conduct. The “well meaning volunteers” in this case were conducting a registration drive - these people should have been aware of the general requirements to register, but did not. Should they be held criminally liable for this? Depends on their intentions, but probably not.
I’m not referring to volunteers, but to officials. Those officials who are paid to ensure the integrity of the electoral process. They failed to do their jobs. I could understand if someone made an effort to deceive them, but this wasn’t the case. These officials illegally delegated their responsibilities to political campaigners. Should the victims of their negligence be punished because of it?
It doesn’t matter what you prefer: the blame falls with the people who failed to perform their duty. It doesn’t matter if they were employees, contractors, or volunteers. They accepted the responsibility when they accepted the position, and they are responsible for their actions or inaction. Yes, Erhard failed in his responsibilities: he should have known to ignore the campaigner who told him otherwise. But without a long series of mistakes on the part of election officials - volunteer or otherwise - his mistake would have had no legal consequences.
I feel that anyone willing to fight for the United States, whether immigrant or not, should have the right to vote.
It seems to be a double standard these days. The Army is so desperate for people to join, they now are speaking out to felons, immigrants, and even those here illegally.
I remember just at the end of last year, I heard a local radio station have the commercial and jingle to the US Army all in SPANISH! I sat back, not only enraged by choice of language the ad was in, but also wondering, “Is the US Government THAT desperate?”
If Luci and her husband became citizens before the boy turned 18, why didn’t they obtain citizenship for their son at that time as well?
Artemis,
Erhard was over 18 at the time they obtained citizenship. They immigrated to the US when Erhard was 15, but did not obtain their citizenship until after his 18th birthday. Otherwise, Erhard would already be a citizen.
Dear Luci & Family, i read your story while we are trying to find some answer’s for ourselves. My son also voted after signing up for selective service at 18 , and recieving a votors registration card. Fabian has been in the U.S. since he was 6 months old, and only speaks the english language. his whole family is here including a 2 year old son, now he is facing possible deportation for voting 8 years ago, he has no crimal record, and has worked with same company since 19, He is now 27 and has made a good name for himself .within that company trying to live the american dream and take care of his family, he has tried to undo the wrong that was done with immigration, and we really don’t know what else to do, but to wait on there decision, if you have any advise for us it would be greatly appriciated. My heart and prayers are with you and your family.
Luci
I just had to write back again, i have been reading what you and some of the other folks have had to say, as i read about your son it was telling my sons story. i thought he was eligiable to vote because he had to sign up for selective service, and he had recieved a voters registration card through the mail. if fabian had not filed to become a citizen6 yrs after the fact , and told them he had voted, he would still be just fine living his life as a perminent resident, and we would not be facing, selling our home we have worked all these years for, or doing what ever it takes to keep our son in the u.s. so he can be a father to his son, and just live life not hurting anyone like he has done for 27 yrs. me and his dad are living in a daze, not knowing what to do next, that is a horrable feeling when you can’t make things right for your kids, no matter what age they are . you just love them. please let me know how things are coming along for your son, i have not heard the outcome from anyone i have read about. .have a wonderful day!
Hi
I fully understand the hell you are going through
I have not cried this much in all my life, it’s like a heavy stone where my heart used to be.
You have to retain a lawyer as soon as possible. Your son cannot be found guilty without due process.
I am sure the outcome will be positive, but you cannot do it without a lawyer (and they don’t come cheap).
My son’s hearing is on April 15, here in Charlotte. The judge sent all his paperwork back to the INS and they will decide now.
I will let you all know what the outcome is.
I emailed you and gave you my phone number, if you want to call me.
Love
Luci
Well, I’m sad to find that I didn’t hear about this until now. I don’t think there’s much I can do except offer condolences. Young men like this are the last ones we need to concern ourselves with deporting. He seems to be an honest, hard-working kid.
To those who think that immigrants should take the time to learn ALL laws in the foreign countries they are in, I suggest you pull out A legal book. See all those pages? Those are the laws. There are A LOT of them, and not even lawyers memorize all the laws and must constantly reference statutes. (Not to mention all the case law.) The point is that the people who should have been familiar with the voting laws are the pollsters - it is their job to monitor who goes to the polls. You know how they want lots of id - voter’s registration, driver’s license, etc? That’s because they are monitoring whether you are able to legally vote. They also check that you are voting in the correct precinct, that you don’t vote twice, etc. In this case, the blame belongs with the pollsters because they failed to do their job.
Jorg, I had to make a separate comment for you. You missed the point completely. The voting registration document you pulled was from this past October, however other sources state that the kid registered to vote a few years ago. Unless you can find the voter’s registration document from when he registered to vote, you have no argument. Why do you think the form so clearly states NOW that non-citizens cannot vote? Because they are correcting past mistakes! You don’t put that on the form unless serious misunderstandings have already taken place.
Luci - I’m very sorry for your situation. I hope things work out in your favor, but the legal system can be depressing at the best of times.
Good news!
He was found innocent today. All the documentation was proof of what he said all along.
Someone else filled out the form, had him sign it but signed their name at the citizenship question. It was a form of the group who did the canvassing, not the normal voter registration form. It was a card as big as my hand.
He will not be deported any more, and he is not morally unfit to be a citizen any more.
He never lied and he had the evidence that he told the truth.
I want to thank all of you from my heart. All the times I cried on the phone to David and he consoled me, Rivalarrival who was and still is such a star, all of you who supported me and believed me from the very beginning, all the donations which was a great help, all the signatures and messages on the petition.
I have almost a thousand signatures. Of that two people were critical, ironically both of the Christians. One told me to start believing and start praying, if I did not I did not love my child. The other one wrote something similar on a blog of someone who posted my petition.
From the atheists I received love and support. I cannot thank you enough. You are my family and I love you all.
I do not have enough words to tell you how much all of you mean to me.
I am so tired tonight. I cannot wait to wake up tomorrow and not to have my son’s possible deportation as my first thought.
Love to all of you
Luci
Congratulations, Erhard, Luci, and your entire family! You just made my day with that announcement!
Dear Luci & Family,
I am so glad this is over for you all, I know it has been a long hard road. We are still prossesing paper work to I.N.S. on Fabian’s behalf, hopefully this will be all over for us soon. I will let you know. Also i want you to know i feel bad about these so called Christian’s who have said mean things to you,they give the rest of us a bad name. I am a Christian and Jesus commanded me to LOVE, NOT JUDGE and that is exactly what i intend to do. Give your Son a BIG HUG for me!
Hi Luci,
I just came across the story of your son and sorry that you guys had to go thru this odeal..finally you guys are fine now i suppose.
I am in a similar situation…but different.
I was automatically registered to vote(without asking if I was a citzen or not) when I first got here and went to the DMV to get my ID.I knew that only a citizen could vote so I never voted in any election….
I already applied for n-400 waiting for the interview…
I am writing to ask for your experince…
1.What is the penalty between registering to vote and “actually” voting?….
2.From your experience,would only registering to vote (but never voted)jeopardize getting the citizenship?..
3.Would they be fine if my name is taken off the voters list?….
because i wrote the county board election to take my name down before I go to the interview?….
Please,let me know what your advice would be on this situation?…
You can also email me…Thanks for your anticipated reply….