You Disgust Me…
March 20, 2008 by TJM Admin
I saw you. Yeah, you. Driving your Honda Insight with the “Got Jesus?” bumper sticker placed above the license plate, ever so carefully centered. Expressing your love for your omnipresent, yet always just out of sight God. In your rear window is the obvious sign of a “holy man,” your sacred fish symbol.
Guess what else I noticed? Even though Jesus taught that you should obey the laws of man, there you go, a good 15-20 MPH over the speed limit. Even though it is quite dry and brown in this part of the country, I find myself swerving to the right ever so slightly to avoid the smoldering cigarette you have so carelessly tossed out your window while fumbling with your cell phone.
We’re coming up to a set of lights now. A gentleman approaches your vehicle, obviously homeless and in dire need. Tonight is the night of the Last Supper. You know, where Jesus washes the feet of his disciples in an effort to show what it means to be humble and to teach them the lesson of servitude. While he may have taught compassion and encouraged his followers to “give all you have to the poor,” you don’t hesitate to roll up your window before the man even gets to you. You avert your gaze. He has seen the look on your face several times before on the faces of others. He knows what you feel. The light changes from red to green. No sooner than it does, you are already in the crosswalk, narrowly missing the small child that was crossing the street. Her mother yells at you as you drive off. You simply gesture to her with a one fingered salute.
I take my attention off of you and look at the homeless fellow that was trying to make his way to your car. He had fallen down and seemed to be in some pain. I put on my four-ways, pull the e-brake and get out to help him up. “I wonder if that idiot knows that his tire is flat,” he says as I help him to his feet. I can’t help it. I laugh out loud, almost to the point of tears.
As Ken and I finish our Whoppers and talk over our Cokes, I can’t help but to think about all the times that I have seen you; all of you. Driving around with your “love of God” pasted all over your vehicles. As I take Ken back to the spot that you so hurriedly drove off from, he says, “God bless you, man.” I don’t say anything. He doesn’t need to know that I am an atheist. “Thank you,” I reply.
And THAT’S why you disgust me, you hypocritical bastard.
First off, I would just like to apologize to you for all that Christians have done to wrong you and everyone else. I am sorry that I, myself, am guilty of hypocrisy. I am sorry that Christianity is no longer a relationship, but a religion and an institution that has done much harm to many, many people. I apologize for the many misguided Christians that hate and despise homosexuals. I am sorry for all of the crimes against humanity that have been committed by men and women in the name of Christ Jesus ( The Crusades). I apologize to all of those hurt and/or insulted by the cult behind http://www.GodHatesFags.com touting Christ's name. I am deeply and honestly sorry for this. Please forgive me.
God bless,
G.S.
[Reply]
First off, I would just like to apologize to you for all that Christians have done to wrong you and everyone else. I am sorry that I, myself, am guilty of hypocrisy. I am sorry that Christianity is no longer a relationship, but a religion and an institution that has done much harm to many, many people. I apologize for the many misguided Christians that hate and despise homosexuals. I am sorry for all of the crimes against humanity that have been committed by men and women in the name of Christ Jesus ( The Crusades). I apologize to all of those hurt and/or insulted by the cult behind http://www.GodHatesFags.com touting Christ's name. I am deeply and honestly sorry for this. Please forgive me.
God bless,
G.S.
[Reply]
First off, I would just like to apologize to you for all that Christians have done to wrong you and everyone else. I am sorry that I, myself, am guilty of hypocrisy. I am sorry that Christianity is no longer a relationship, but a religion and an institution that has done much harm to many, many people. I apologize for the many misguided Christians that hate and despise homosexuals. I am sorry for all of the crimes against humanity that have been committed by men and women in the name of Christ Jesus ( The Crusades). I apologize to all of those hurt and/or insulted by the cult behind http://www.GodHatesFags.com touting Christ's name. I am deeply and honestly sorry for this. Please forgive me.
God bless,
G.S.
[Reply]
First off, I would just like to apologize to you for all that Christians have done to wrong you and everyone else. I am sorry that I, myself, am guilty of hypocrisy. I am sorry that Christianity is no longer a relationship, but a religion and an institution that has done much harm to many, many people. I apologize for the many misguided Christians that hate and despise homosexuals. I am sorry for all of the crimes against humanity that have been committed by men and women in the name of Christ Jesus ( The Crusades). I apologize to all of those hurt and/or insulted by the cult behind http://www.GodHatesFags.com touting Christ's name. I am deeply and honestly sorry for this. Please forgive me.
God bless,
G.S.
[Reply]
That's an inspiring story… it reminds me that I need to check my tire pressure.
Ahem. Yes, those people really do exist, zooming around in their minivans, BMWs, or SUVs, sucking down a mile to the gallon as they cruise a quarter car-length from the vehicle in front of them at 85 miles per hour. In the rain.
Now, granted, I'm in Connecticut, so minivans, BMWs, and SUVs are pretty much the norm. Also, the roads up here are pretty much the Wild West - there's pretty much no law on the roads anymore as they've given up trying to curb the general lawlessness of the highways and byways. So the aggressive driving, weaving, tossing stuff out of the window, that sort of thing is fairly common around here too. Statistically speaking, it's no surprise that Christians drive the same way, because of the fact that damned near everybody drives that way up here.
But it should be surprising. It should be surprising when that car with the "Atheist? You'd Better Be Right!" sticker runs off before I get the chance to use one of the many arguments against Pascal's Wager, nearly clipping the line of pedestrians that have the right-of-way on the sidewalk. (Oh, they don't drive on the sidewalk where you live? Cherish it.) It should be a surprise that the Jesus-love crowd suddenly forget all that biblical morality-tale BS the moment they turn the ignition key. No more watching out for their fellow man, no more spreading peace and love - it's right into what they call the "cut and thrust" of traffic, but would more aptly be called "kill or be killed" traffic.
This story provides a much more poignant detail: Ken. Dude, seriously, I want you to know this: you're one of the reasons that I'm not ashamed to say I'm an atheist publicly.
Forget all the arguments about how morality only comes from religion. Forget all that business about how atheism can only lead to degeneracy and mayhem. You can safely forget all those hypothetical arguments now. Our host here is living proof that good morality comes from within the individual, not from the individual's religion.
Oh, and G.S: Nobody wants the apology of a single believer - even as genuine and heartfelt as that one appeared to be. We don't want to hear contrition and appeals for mercy. We don't want to have to weigh our forgiveness. We just want you to stop. Because we already know the pattern: one comes forward to apologize, and the next day, he's back with the flock, doing the same stuff. The next day, there'll be another school board somewhere in America that will vote to get rid of all mention of evolution. The next day, there will be a president saying that his god told him to go to war. The next day, there will be someone telling me that I am an immoral sinner bound for hell because of my rejection of her make-believe god.
Don't apologize. Get them to stop.
[Reply]
First off, I would just like to apologize to you for all that Christians have done to wrong you and everyone else. I am sorry that I, myself, am guilty of hypocrisy. I am sorry that Christianity is no longer a relationship, but a religion and an institution that has done much harm to many, many people. I apologize for the many misguided Christians that hate and despise homosexuals. I am sorry for all of the crimes against humanity that have been committed by men and women in the name of Christ Jesus ( The Crusades). I apologize to all of those hurt and/or insulted by the cult behind http://www.GodHatesFags.com touting Christ’s name. I am deeply and honestly sorry for this. Please forgive me.
God bless,
G.S.
[Reply]
That’s an inspiring story… it reminds me that I need to check my tire pressure.
Ahem. Yes, those people really do exist, zooming around in their minivans, BMWs, or SUVs, sucking down a mile to the gallon as they cruise a quarter car-length from the vehicle in front of them at 85 miles per hour. In the rain.
Now, granted, I’m in Connecticut, so minivans, BMWs, and SUVs are pretty much the norm. Also, the roads up here are pretty much the Wild West - there’s pretty much no law on the roads anymore as they’ve given up trying to curb the general lawlessness of the highways and byways. So the aggressive driving, weaving, tossing stuff out of the window, that sort of thing is fairly common around here too. Statistically speaking, it’s no surprise that Christians drive the same way, because of the fact that damned near everybody drives that way up here.
But it should be surprising. It should be surprising when that car with the “Atheist? You’d Better Be Right!” sticker runs off before I get the chance to use one of the many arguments against Pascal’s Wager, nearly clipping the line of pedestrians that have the right-of-way on the sidewalk. (Oh, they don’t drive on the sidewalk where you live? Cherish it.) It should be a surprise that the Jesus-love crowd suddenly forget all that biblical morality-tale BS the moment they turn the ignition key. No more watching out for their fellow man, no more spreading peace and love - it’s right into what they call the “cut and thrust” of traffic, but would more aptly be called “kill or be killed” traffic.
This story provides a much more poignant detail: Ken. Dude, seriously, I want you to know this: you’re one of the reasons that I’m not ashamed to say I’m an atheist publicly.
Forget all the arguments about how morality only comes from religion. Forget all that business about how atheism can only lead to degeneracy and mayhem. You can safely forget all those hypothetical arguments now. Our host here is living proof that good morality comes from within the individual, not from the individual’s religion.
Oh, and G.S: Nobody wants the apology of a single believer - even as genuine and heartfelt as that one appeared to be. We don’t want to hear contrition and appeals for mercy. We don’t want to have to weigh our forgiveness. We just want you to stop. Because we already know the pattern: one comes forward to apologize, and the next day, he’s back with the flock, doing the same stuff. The next day, there’ll be another school board somewhere in America that will vote to get rid of all mention of evolution. The next day, there will be a president saying that his god told him to go to war. The next day, there will be someone telling me that I am an immoral sinner bound for hell because of my rejection of her make-believe god.
Don’t apologize. Get them to stop.
[Reply]
Interesting. Most of the religious motorists where I live (Indiana) typically either drive much slower than the speed limit (and in the passing lane usually) or they pass me like Earth was standing still. And I like to speed.
I frightened my wife a while back by pointing out to her the alarmingly high percentage of mini-vans that have at least one of the following (and btw, if it should contain at least the "holy trinity" of these, then immediately get as far away from these haphazard people as you can):
1. The obligatory 'Jesus bumper-sticker". It doesn't matter what it says, just as long as every other motorist can see how humbly you have displayed your faith at 55 mph.
2. The ol' fish symbol and its many variants. Don't they know this is the dawning of the age of Aquarius? lol
3. The rosary beads on the rear-view are a local popularity where I'm from. Just substitute a cross or dashboard saint if Catholicism is not your brand.
4. For some reason, we get the "soccerball" sticker here a lot. I'm starting to associate soccer moms with jesus. Is that fair to soccer?
5. A good old American flag magnate (so the sticker don't peel the paint off the Suburban). Because if you don't have an American flag during travel, what kind of communist hippy are you?
Of course, now the Indiana license plates have taken the trouble away for you anyway, because we now have an ugly blue plate which proudly declares "One Nation Under God" on it. Thank god it's only voluntary to get it right now, but who knows when jesus will change his mind and demand we all use it? It certainly is easier to tell who all of the secularists are by looking at their license plates. It makes it easier on me to discriminate at a glance. I'm sure the holy would never do something like that though.
I don't know why we need all of these constant reminders of gods love for the road when we have so many billboards, businesses and churches that are already reminding us every eighth of a mile anyway. And that is not an exaggeration. This is Fort Wayne "The City of Churches".
[Reply]
Interesting. Most of the religious motorists where I live (Indiana) typically either drive much slower than the speed limit (and in the passing lane usually) or they pass me like Earth was standing still. And I like to speed.
I frightened my wife a while back by pointing out to her the alarmingly high percentage of mini-vans that have at least one of the following (and btw, if it should contain at least the “holy trinity” of these, then immediately get as far away from these haphazard people as you can):
1. The obligatory ‘Jesus bumper-sticker”. It doesn’t matter what it says, just as long as every other motorist can see how humbly you have displayed your faith at 55 mph.
2. The ol’ fish symbol and its many variants. Don’t they know this is the dawning of the age of Aquarius? lol
3. The rosary beads on the rear-view are a local popularity where I’m from. Just substitute a cross or dashboard saint if Catholicism is not your brand.
4. For some reason, we get the “soccerball” sticker here a lot. I’m starting to associate soccer moms with jesus. Is that fair to soccer?
5. A good old American flag magnate (so the sticker don’t peel the paint off the Suburban). Because if you don’t have an American flag during travel, what kind of communist hippy are you?
Of course, now the Indiana license plates have taken the trouble away for you anyway, because we now have an ugly blue plate which proudly declares “One Nation Under God” on it. Thank god it’s only voluntary to get it right now, but who knows when jesus will change his mind and demand we all use it? It certainly is easier to tell who all of the secularists are by looking at their license plates. It makes it easier on me to discriminate at a glance. I’m sure the holy would never do something like that though.
I don’t know why we need all of these constant reminders of gods love for the road when we have so many billboards, businesses and churches that are already reminding us every eighth of a mile anyway. And that is not an exaggeration. This is Fort Wayne “The City of Churches”.
[Reply]
What is a hypocrit? It is the person who pretends to be what he's not or judges (feels superior to) people for not living up to a standard he also doesn't meet.
So the hypocrit isn't the person who drives by the homeless person. The hypocrit is the one who is disgusted by people who drive by a homeless person … and then drives by a homeless person. So you can never drive by one again.
Personally, I pretty much only give money to homeless people who are missing limbs. I know, there are whole people who are honestly down on their luck, but I've seen too many holding a "will work work for food" outside a business with a "help wanted."
Then there was the homeless guy I took to lunch who proudly told me he wouldn't work because they'd make him pay back his college loans. This is why my homeless-charity is institutional, not individual. [/digression]
Are you surprised that there are people who don't live up to their own beliefs? Then you don't get out enough.
Here's a little observation for you — there are a lot of people with the little fish on their cars who aren't really Christians — don't go to church much, don't give one whit about Jesus or what He taught, couldn't care less how it looks. There are also people with Clinton/Obama/McCain stickers on their cars who won't be bothered to vote. Two words — social pressure.
The truth of a proposition is not determined by the sincerity of its adherents.
Darque said: <i>Forget all the arguments about how morality only comes from religion. Forget all that business about how atheism can only lead to degeneracy and mayhem. You can safely forget all those hypothetical arguments now. Our host here is living proof that good morality comes from within the individual, not from the individual’s religion.</i>
No one with half a brain says that you have to be religious to be moral (though toooo many atheists seem to think that's what we say). The argument is that there is no morality without an external standard.
In other words, if there is no God, what's <i>wrong</i> with saying you think you should help people and then ignoring the homeless?
[Reply]
What is a hypocrit? It is the person who pretends to be what he’s not or judges (feels superior to) people for not living up to a standard he also doesn’t meet.
So the hypocrit isn’t the person who drives by the homeless person. The hypocrit is the one who is disgusted by people who drive by a homeless person … and then drives by a homeless person. So you can never drive by one again.
Personally, I pretty much only give money to homeless people who are missing limbs. I know, there are whole people who are honestly down on their luck, but I’ve seen too many holding a “will work work for food” outside a business with a “help wanted.”
Then there was the homeless guy I took to lunch who proudly told me he wouldn’t work because they’d make him pay back his college loans. This is why my homeless-charity is institutional, not individual. [/digression]
Are you surprised that there are people who don’t live up to their own beliefs? Then you don’t get out enough.
Here’s a little observation for you — there are a lot of people with the little fish on their cars who aren’t really Christians — don’t go to church much, don’t give one whit about Jesus or what He taught, couldn’t care less how it looks. There are also people with Clinton/Obama/McCain stickers on their cars who won’t be bothered to vote. Two words — social pressure.
The truth of a proposition is not determined by the sincerity of its adherents.
Darque said: Forget all the arguments about how morality only comes from religion. Forget all that business about how atheism can only lead to degeneracy and mayhem. You can safely forget all those hypothetical arguments now. Our host here is living proof that good morality comes from within the individual, not from the individual’s religion.
No one with half a brain says that you have to be religious to be moral (though toooo many atheists seem to think that’s what we say). The argument is that there is no morality without an external standard.
In other words, if there is no God, what’s wrong with saying you think you should help people and then ignoring the homeless?
[Reply]
Obviously, Chris, you missed the part where I had lunch with the gentleman. I didn't "drive by him."
<blockquote>don’t give one whit about Jesus or what He taught,</blockquote>
That, my friend, may be the most precise thing that you have said. Come to think of it, when was the last time you watched a Christian "sell all that he had," give the proceeds to the poor to follow Jesus?
<blockquote>In other words, if there is no God, what’s wrong with saying you think you should help people and then ignoring the homeless?</blockquote> Plenty, but I think that you are eluding to the question of can one have morals without a god. Yes. More on that in my next post!
[Reply]
Obviously, Chris, you missed the part where I had lunch with the gentleman. I didn’t “drive by him.”
That, my friend, may be the most precise thing that you have said. Come to think of it, when was the last time you watched a Christian “sell all that he had,” give the proceeds to the poor to follow Jesus?
Plenty, but I think that you are eluding to the question of can one have morals without a god. Yes. More on that in my next post!
[Reply]
You miss <i>my</i> point. I know you had lunch with this one. I'm saying you have to stop for <i>all</i> of them now or become the hypocrit.
<i>when was the last time you watched a Christian “sell all that he had,” </i>
Why is do atheists insist on telling Christians how to interpret the Bible? That statement was made to one person; there is nothing to suggest that it was a universal imperative.
I'll be glad to see your next post, but the point is not that you <i>can</i> have "morals" without God; the point is that "moral" means nothing without God.
[Reply]
You miss my point. I know you had lunch with this one. I’m saying you have to stop for all of them now or become the hypocrit.
when was the last time you watched a Christian “sell all that he had,”
Why is do atheists insist on telling Christians how to interpret the Bible? That statement was made to one person; there is nothing to suggest that it was a universal imperative.
I’ll be glad to see your next post, but the point is not that you can have “morals” without God; the point is that “moral” means nothing without God.
[Reply]
I respectfully disagree with you completely, Chris. Morality means much more without god. Now, onto that post for more on that…
[Reply]
I respectfully disagree with you completely, Chris. Morality means much more without god. Now, onto that post for more on that…
[Reply]
God is dead…Nietszche
Nietszche is dead….God
your pea brained opinions about what Christians are supposed to be,
have a couple of logic defects.
if there is no God,
then that other driver just delusional in his beliefs,
should be pitied and by definition can not occupy any space in your head,
since you know there is no God.
if there is a God,
than why are you so angry?
as far as your patty cake story about the homeless man,
its clearly fabricated
and i think you know why…don’t you.
[Reply]
I think you will find good and bad in all crowds. Additionally, I don’t think we should judge someone by a bumper sticker that they have on their car. We should judge them by their actions if at all. In your case that is exactly what you have done.
However, you have generalized all Christians by this individual or the individuals you have witnessed. This behavior is not always the case. I definitely don’t believe in evolution, but don’t think it would be fair for me to post negatively about all drivers with Darwin Bumber stickers.
To those claiming to be Christians, it is an enormous responsibility and a claim that should be made only if it is true and you are living by the word every day. Jesus is not a Myth. Although some who claim to follow may not really be following.
[Reply]
Stalin, Hitler, Chairman Mao–atheists every one….responsible for the deaths of millions. But I guess they are your heroes. I suppose as long as they are not hypocrites, that is OK with you. Genuine Christians, like the real Jesus they have followed, have laid down their lives for people. Open your eyes and see the other side of the coin for a change.
As Kai rightly pointed out, there is no morality of any deep sense if there is no God. Thus there is no code of right and wrong. Thus the so-called stereotypical Christian you have made, has done nothing wrong. A million years from now, nothing of your essay will matter, as all those people will return to dust and void.
If there is a God, especially the God that raised Jesus from the dead, there is right and wrong. Not only will Christians be judged by that one righteous Man, but so will all the atheists who have rejected His loving grace. Your picture proves that there is such a thing as a sinner, as Jesus said. Funny how an atheist can prove Jesus right. Christians are sinners who have realized they need Jesus’ forgiveness. Atheists are sinners who have not. You would have been a better atheist if you described how you don’t care what anyone does. Your disgust proves there is a God. Your heart is testifying that fact. But your mind refuses to acknowledge it. That is called pride. Among sins, pride is number one; hypocrisy is number two.
Hell is life without God. You are in it now, as a foretaste. It is filled with hate, anxiety, murder, disgust, etc. God casts no one in hell except the devil. All other willing atheists walk there of their own disgusted volition.
I suspect your entire story is fiction, but that is beside the point, as I know that many people who have believed into Jesus do not live the life of Jesus and are hypocrites.. To receive Him is easy…just let go of your pride. To live Him out is hard, requiring the denying of your self everyday. The existence of hypocrites says little about the person of Jesus, who was perfectly wonderful, a God-man. Hypocrites existed long before Jesus appeared. It seems you never met a genuine Christian. Probably, to be consistent, you deny their existence, as you do the living God. How convenient. I have known hundreds of Christians who have left their self-interests to feed the poor, heal the sick, build homes for the homeless, etc. I look forward to your essay on these Christians and your praise for them.
To add a little reality to your fiction, let me also tell me what I was adamantly told by workers at a homeless shelter here in Pittsburgh where I live. (East End Cooperative Ministry
250 North Highland Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15206
(412)361-5549 Feel free to call to verify this info.)
They said that the “homeless” people on the side of the road are nearly without exception frauds who are seeking a cheap way to make money. The several hundred truly homeless people in town are well known by the people at the agency as they have been doing this help for decades. They said to “never give money to them” as it only makes the problem worse. They said to help the homeless, give your money directly to homeless shelters or food banks. So in brief, not only is your story biased, it is also ignorant of people’s true needs. I think people like you like to do an occasional “good” deed just to magnify yourself as a “good” person compared to those “bad” Christian hypocrites. Nice try.
[Reply]
TJM Admin reply on September 7th, 2008 5:03 pm:
I love when people bring this type of stuff up. Hitler, in fact, believed that he was doing the will of God, as evidenced by several of his writings as well as his dealings with the Pope at that time. In a 1922 speech, he said: “My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. …And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited.”
Stalin was probably more deist than anything else. Stalin “denied categorically to prescribe atheistic literature to his personal library, fastidiously calling it ‘antireligious waste-paper (junk)’”. (”Secret life of Stalin : By materials of his books and archive : According to Stalinism” by Ilizarov.B.S. 2004) Stalin wrote poems in Georgian language. They are so good that were being published in local magazines. Few fragments sounds so (translation from Georgian to Russian language by L.Kotiukov, Newspaper “Duel” N10(101)1999-03-09. “Poet Josef Dzhugashvili”
(…) In his burden and song like the beam of the Sun, lived great truth – DIVINE dream.
(…) But people who forgot GOD, with darkness in their hearts, instead of wine served poison to him in the cup.
And told to him: “Damn you! Drink this cup to the bottom!… And your song is alien for us, and we don’t need your truth!”
Hey, I will give you Mao. But, for the sake of argument, let us just say that they were all atheists. By your own argument alone, you cannot categorize all atheist by their actions. After all, you have already told me that I cannot categorize all Christians by one hypocrites’ actions.
Not so, although it is not a worthwhile debate to defend the intentions of my actions.
[Reply]
greenerman reply on September 8th, 2008 1:22 pm:
Atheism means NO GOD. God is a loving compassionate being. Hitler and Stalin had no God in their life. They were atheists. As James wrote, faith without works is dead. By their fruit (not their words) shall you know them, Jesus said. You may have noticed that Hitler and Stalin were both masters of propaganda. They wrote and said many things, but the fruit of their work was apparent to all. They were atheists.
If a person believed that an idol is god, they are not a theist. They are an imaginative person. Theism is defined as the belief in God. There is one true God, the God of our Lord Jesus. Any other “belief” is not theism. Belief is defined by the Bible as an entrance into the person of God, a loving submission and fellowship with Him, a relationship with Him that bears the fruit of love, joy, peace, etc. Hitler and Stalin were atheists. They had NO GOD.
Talk about God is not God. Poems about God are not God. God is God, and God is love. So you claim Hitler and Stalin were love? They were atheists, which literally means NO LOVE.
The Christian life is based on God entering into someone (firstly) then God living out of them (consummately). There are two steps, one initial, and the other life-long. So atheism is the same? I think not. We are born without God. We are born atheists. I was born an atheist, and became a Christian.
Many confuse religion with God. Religion is a set of rules, beliefs, principles, etc God is a living person. Hitler and Stalin were religious, but did not have God. They were religious atheists.
But you digress from the main point. Your point is that hypocrites disgust you. They disgust me too. How does that relate to anything useful? There will always be hypocrites. Some atheists hypocritically judge people in terms of right and wrong when they know there is no such thing as right or wrong. Some atheists pretend to be religious, doing “good deeds” while denying the very source of good, God. Once Jesus was asked “Good teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life” Jesus cut straight to the misconception in the young man’s heart. He said “Why do you call me good? There is one that is good—God” In essence, Jesus said two things: 1) no man is good, and 2) He was God.
[Reply]
TJM Admin reply on September 8th, 2008 7:27 pm:
No, Green. Atheism does not mean NO GOD. Atheism is the polar opposite of theism, which is belief in a god. Atheism simply means no belief in any gods. While it is within the realm of possibility that a god or gods may exist, atheism asserts that, due to the complete lack of empirical evidence, belief that such a being exists is not warranted. Much like you do not believe in Odin, Adonis, Isis, fairies, unicorns, leprechauns, the Flying Spaghetti Monster… Need we go on?
Belief in ANY god is theism, contrary to YOUR personal definition. This is where we get the concepts of both mono and polytheism (a singular god or multiple gods, respectively).
No, they are, by definition, theists. You say that your god is the one true god, which is exactly what other monotheists with beliefs divergent from yours would also say. You all have one common bond; the lack of any empirical evidence. Not a one of you can prove, beyond any doubt, that your god is real, let alone the one “true” god. The same Jesus who once implored of the doubting Thomas to feel his wounds is surprisingly absent from today’s skeptical inquiries. Are the doubting souls of today worth any less than those of 2,000 years ago?
Using this logic, I suppose that it would be quite safe of me to lump the following into the “atheistic burning torch” : Ted Haggert, Jimmy Swaggart, The Bakers, every pastor that willingly violates the IRS codes by involving themselves in political stances from the pulpit, the man that drinks himself silly Saturday night only to ask for forgiveness Sunday morning… Basically, we can safely assume, through your statement, that a good 75% or more of self-professing Christians are mere impostors?
All I see by Stalin’s poems are references to GOD as Socrates, being forced to drink the cup of poison…. I do not see any relation to God.
Whether or not Hitler was a Christian in 1922, I wonder what he prescribed to during the “final solution”. Question: What was he then?
Here are some Hitler quotes, you conveniently omitted…
In 1941 he was quoted as saying the following:
“Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.”
“The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity….”
“National Socialism and religion cannot exist together….”
“Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.”
“The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death…. When understanding of the universe has become widespread… Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity….
“Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity…. And that’s why someday its structure will collapse….
“…the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little….
“Christianity the liar….
“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State.”
“Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer….
“The decisive falsification of Jesus’ doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work… for the purposes of personal exploitation….”
“Didn’t the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it’s in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea.”
These and many more anti-Christian, anti-Religion quotes came from Hitler’s Table Talk (1953)
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After reading quotes from Hitler during the height of his power, I would figure he is not a theist…. unless you prescribe to the idea of “once a theist, always a theist”.
Definition of Atheism:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism
no deity = NO GOD
atheos (Greek) = godless = NO GOD
So, from what I see, TJM, you are wrong in stating that atheism is only the disbelief of God…. or at least you may not understand the original source of the word?
Some empirical evidence supporting Jesus as God…
Did you know that there were over 300 biblical prophecies fulfilled by Jesus. http://bibleprobe.com/300great.htm
What is the likelihood of one man fulfilling so many prophesies written thousands of years before his time? What is the likelihood that one man would fulfill 8 of them? 1×10(to the 17th power).
http://www.carm.org/bible/prophecy.htm
Did you know that the Bible has over 6,000 manuscripts (up to 20,000), all of which are 99% textually pure? Of which many of it’s writers were (old and new) were either at the scene, and regarding the New Testament, were written within 20-60 years of the actual events from many first and second hand perspectives?
Can you attribute the same historicity to any other ancient or historical document more than 1000 years old?
http://www.carm.org/questions/rewritten.htm
Personally, I think it has more historicity than your fabricated story.
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